Can we get entry ilvl for levelling dungeons already?

[BillyKaplan]

A lesson teaching ypu the importance of killing adds quickly (e.g. kill the adds before they kill a party member) is not "dps are meant to tank adds." Don't be a fool.

Specifically the add in question is hella squish and dies fast. if it was anything sturdier it would require serious tanking by an actual tank. Given how you can go in there on a THM or an ARC, however, and be basically naked, they tuned it appropriately.

BLM's mana ward protects against magic damage only. Cocna's hits are physical.

Oh you haven't played BLM in a while, have you? Both our defensive cooldowns were consolidated into a single skill that just soaks damage.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

the hall of the novice IS teaching new DDs to pick up and - tank the adds.

and it somehow even makes sense, in 4 man content with a single tank. i can see an idea of tank tanks boss, DDs tank Adds, healer heals all of them. of course it's more effective that tank tanks boss AND adds and DDs and healer both are dpsing. but it's just another point in the gameplay discrepancy between the devs wich want tanks in tank stance and healers healing vs the community which wants dps dps dps.

and btw it was actually NOT intended that healers use their dps abilitys in group content... and BLM does have a defensive cooldown...

Now you're moving the goalposts. The Hall of Novice suggests DPS should target adds attacking their healer. Actively tanking them is a last retort attempt to keep the party alive, not something desirable nor encouraged. Likewise, you are willfully being obtuse regarding the differences between tanks and DPS. Yes, BLM has a defensive cooldown, but they lack the necessary stats to survive high damage. Aero III from Neo will kill any DPS no matter what tools they utilize whereas tanks can shrug it off.

Yes, actually, they were. Just not to the extent we do. Spells like Holy, Aero III and Gravity have no real necessity in the MSQ. If the devs only wanted healers to heal, they would have locked out Cleric Stance during all 4-8-24 man content; they did in PvP.

[Kacho_Nacho]

I hope you don't think ill of the majority of the people in this thread. Personally I love off meta-comps, and I don't mind if someone's doing poorly in a dungeon provided they're putting an effort into it. There's just a big difference between doing this with some friends in a pre-made, and forcing this on to random players.

Of course not! We're just having a nice discussion.

I totally agree there is a big difference between doing content with some friends in a pre-made and doing content with a group of strangers. It's understood everyone should generally stick to their role in your average run.

[alimdia]

you can all say whatever you want

The hall of the novice IS also teaching new tanks to pick up and tank the adds, guess what's going to happen when a class with +enmity also attacks adds? DPS aren't gonna tank it, they are just gonna attack it.

How do you know what is or is not intended in group content? Why aren't healer dps spells disabled in group content if they aren't intended to be used there?

[HyoMinPark]

you can all say whatever you want:

the hall of the novice IS teaching new DDs to pick up and - tank the adds.

and it somehow even makes sense, in 4 man content with a single tank. i can see an idea of tank tanks boss, DDs tank Adds, healer heals all of them. of course it's more effective that tank tanks boss AND adds and DDs and healer both are dpsing. but it's just another point in the gameplay discrepancy between the devs wich want tanks in tank stance and healers healing vs the community which wants dps dps dps.

and btw it was actually NOT intended that healers use their dps abilitys in group content... and BLM does have a defensive cooldown...

If healers weren’t meant to use their DPS abilities in group content, they would be greyed out like Cleric Stance was in the old PvP. Don’t be ridiculous. Also, just because one or two DPS jobs have abilities to “mitigate” damage doesn’t mean that they are meant to tank adds, some of which hit hella nasty.

This thread isn’t a healer DPS debate—that debate was settled when the Squadron Healer was shown to both DPS AND HEAL in Squadron missions. If you want a healer DPS debate, by all means, create your own thread instead of trying to hijack this one.

[TruebladeNuke]

I have to... ... wait. Did this thread seriously almost become yet another "Healer DPS" debate thread even though the NPC squad healers have proven that's possible to both heal and DPS? (Even if the NPC squad members may be a bit wonky on some things here and there)

._.

Anyway!

I have to admit, I'm rather surprised that leveling dungeons still don't have item level restrictions on them, given how far we are into the game now. It's true that the game literally throws gear at you from MSQs and side quests. It's also true that one can just simply buy normal quality gear from NPC vendors as necessary too. But the fact that the Stormblood leveling dungeons don't even attempt to warn you that your item level is too low for entry is a bit shocking to me. Given how hard the mobs can potentially hit you for in the Stormblood leveling dungeons, you'd think the leveling dungeons would start having item level restrictions on them. Especially seeing as how the last Heavensward dungeons did have item level restrictions on them, which gave you at least a vague clue of what your minimum item level should be for when you step into the first Stormblood leveling dungeon.

Honestly, the thread title alone says it all. While it may be too late for the Stormblood leveling dungeons, as most players are now focused on the endgame Stormblood stuff, I feel that all future expansion pack leveling dungeons should have a minimum item level restriction to them along side all the other minimum item level restricted content. And I say this as someone who hasn't had the unfortunate luck of running into random DF players who are so heavily undergeared that they literally can't contribute because of their gear, which would have given me yet another reason to use "Tales from the Duty Finder" thread again.

Though now that I've said that last sentence, I feel I've just jynxed myself and now it's going to happen to me on the next Duty Roulette: Leveling run I make... q_q

[TheAngelneer]

Also yes it is a tank's job to have aggro on every mob. I cannot even believe this is up for debate. It's literally what the role was designed to do.

Do some of you even play the same Final Fantasy XIV as I do?

There are a lot of fights that are easier if the tank ignore some mobs, and there are some of them in which this is even required. And this go back all the way to ARR with stuff like Cutter's Cry, where one of the strategies for the Myrmidon Princess was to let the healer kite the adds around the room.

One exemple from current content is the Amikiri boss fight in Shisui, it is way better if the tank just ignores the add that spawn while the rest of the group rush kill it before it can get his attack that targets 3 party members.

There are many other instances where this happens, including untankable mobs with no aggro tables or that just tether and aggro a non-tank player.

[HyoMinPark]

Do some of you even play the same Final Fantasy XIV as I do?

There are a lot of fights that are easier if the tank ignore some mobs, and there are some of them in which this is even required. And this go back all the way to ARR with stuff like Cutter's Cry, where one of the strategies for the Myrmidon Princess was to let the healer kite the adds around the room.

One exemple from current content is the Amikiri boss fight in Shisui, it is way better if the tank just ignores the add that spawn while the rest of the group rush kill it before it can get his attack that targets 3 party members.

There are many other instances where this happens, including untankable mobs with no aggro tables or that just tether and aggro a non-tank player.

Pretty sure most of us are talking about adds that spawn during fights that have plenty of potential to kill anyone who is not a tank. Take the add that appears during Scathach's fight in Dun Scaith: I have tanked that add as a BRD before, and subsequently died. He hurts. The add in the first boss of Shisui barely tickles, so sure, a tank can ignore it and let the DPS slaughter it. For adds with no threat table, again, they don't hit hard enough to take a DPS or healer out in two swings--they've specifically been tuned for that.

Kiting the adds in Cutter's Cry is kiting--they aren't actually in range to hit the healer if that strategy is used, so damage doesn't become an issue. What with the blatant overgearing we have now, kiting doesn't even have to be used; you can just have the tank hold them all while you burn the Princess boss down.

But for mobs in dungeon pulls and adds on a far larger threat scale in fights? Tanks should absolutely pick them up because they have the tools to survive hard hits--DPS and healers do not. Have you ever tried to tank one of the adds in A12S? Even unsynced they still kinda hurt. Thus, tanks pick them up--not DPS, not healers. Mobs in dungeons like Bardam's Mettle or Doma Castle? Tanks should tank them; that's their job.

I honestly can't believe this is even a subject of debate right now.

[SenorPatty]

This is turning out to be almost as good as the earth is flat people.

[TheAngelneer]

snip

"Tank must get ALL the mobs!"
"Obviously by ALL we mean only the 'dangerous ones'!"

k.