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  1. #1
    Player
    Eyvhokan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    200
    Character
    Eyvhokan Poseidal
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    Miner Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by ArianeEwah View Post
    Debatable.

    Let's say, you mess up with WAR or even die: You need to replenish your gauge before you can burst. (Totally never happened to me )
    PLD: Your mana pool is empty, you can't burst with Requiscat.
    DRK would be the only tank job to use this to refill its mana pool with this.

    I am all for buffs, but I don't think this one is necessary.
    Are you sure we're talking about the same ability? delirium doesn't even do anything without Blood Weapon/Price up. All it does is add 8/16s onto those.
    (0)

  2. #2
    Player
    Cheyze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    14
    Character
    Nanazaja Torneau
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Eyvhokan View Post
    delirium doesn't even do anything without Blood Weapon/Price up. All it does is add 8/16s onto those.
    It gives MP.

    Edit:

    Restores MP.
    Additional Effect: Extends Blood Weapon and Blood Price effects by 8s and 16s respectively.

    Blood Gauge Cost: 50
    (0)
    Last edited by Cheyze; 11-14-2017 at 08:23 PM.

  3. #3
    Player
    Eyvhokan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    200
    Character
    Eyvhokan Poseidal
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    Miner Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheyze View Post
    It gives MP.

    Edit:
    Ah, forgot about that. But even with that in mind, MP doesn't really work in the same way for DRK as it does for PLD. It's more akin to a WAR using Equilibrium.

    Quote Originally Posted by ArianeEwah View Post
    Let me reapproach this with a better wording then.

    My point is: DRK would be the only job that doesn't need some kind of pool (mana or job gauge) to burst after a screw up.
    PLD: "I had to heal just before my requiscat window? Damn, delay it then."
    WAR: "I died RIGHT before my sexy FC window! Not even Infuriate ready? Argh."
    DRK: "Blood Spiller! Oh, Delirium is ready, but that was my last Blackblood and mana... oh, don't need it! Extra mana, baby!"

    I am not saying, it wouldn't be nice. Yet I think Delirium is fine as it is, there should be tweaks in other skills and abilites.

    €dit: I still would consider a price reduction to 20, cause it IS a pretty darn important skill to keep on CD.
    I see what you mean now. The MP it makes (due to the way DRK works with MP) is more like Equilibrium, but if the cost for missing the window is a concern, then the effect should probably be made more powerful (even with a reduced blood cost), as the 'reward' for it is actually pitiful as we found from a calculation someone here did.
    (0)
    Last edited by Eyvhokan; 11-14-2017 at 09:02 PM.

  4. 11-14-2017 08:25 PM

  5. #5
    Player
    Crater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    399
    Character
    Jade Nixx
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by ArianeEwah View Post
    DRK: "Blood Spiller! Oh, Delirium is ready, but that was my last Blackblood and mana... oh, don't need it! Extra mana, baby!"
    2400 MP, without the Blood Weapon extension, is worth 140 potency.

    If you use Inner Release, without Berserk, without Infuriate, starting from 0 gauge, it's impossible to get less than at least one extra Fell Cleave out of it (one Eye combo and one Path combo is 50 BG, and IR lets you turn that into two Fell Cleaves instead of one), that is still a gain of 300 potency over your standard combo GCD - twice as powerful as the skill change that you're claiming would be too overpowered to give DRK.
    (4)

  6. 11-14-2017 11:16 PM

  7. #7
    Player
    Lyth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Meracydia
    Posts
    3,883
    Character
    Lythia Norvaine
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by ArianeEwah View Post
    ...
    DRK effectively starts at negative resources when you die and is not only locked out of most of their actions, but their mitigation kit as well. It takes two ticks to even get enough MP to even reapply Darkside, and you can forget about trying to get up Grit or TBN anytime soon. If you die on WAR or PLD, you lose dps (that's kind of the way it's supposed to work). If you die on DRK, you lose your ability to even have basic functionality as a tank.

    I find that a lot of people struggle to understand how burst works on DRK, let alone Delirium. It's resource-gated burst. Your Delirium needs to happen in sync with raid buffs. If you go into it with zero MP, you're in an equal amount of trouble as anyone else. You're just burning the cooldown to get back on track, similar to if you wasted Infuriate outside of a burst window to get a bit of resources. Your goal is to get as many DA uses into the window as possible, and you can't do that if you're at zero MP.
    (4)

  8. #8
    Player
    ArianeEwah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    478
    Character
    Ari Dyones
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyth View Post
    snip
    Could you please stop taking my quotes out of context?!

    I have played DRK long enough to know how hard it hurts to lose your mana pool and reestablish Darkside or Grit. I've also played it during Alex and there it was even worse!

    But guess what, you are exaggerating here as well. EVERY tanks burst window is resource-gated! PLD can't burst without mana, just like DRK. WAR can't burst without a decent filled beast gauge.
    PLD also can't switch to Shield Oath instantly after revive, thru it indeed costs less mana than Grit, and WAR doesn't gain anything either when they switch to Defiance after death.
    Losing your 'basic funtionality as a tank'? If TBN would be the only CD you have, then WAR only has Inner Beast and PLD only Sheltron.
    DRK mitigation is lacking, but not so much that you would lose your 'basic functionality'.

    Overwise this job would've never cleared Ultimate. It's not 'unplayable', it is 'undesired'. Notice the difference!
    (1)

  9. #9
    Player
    Lyth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Meracydia
    Posts
    3,883
    Character
    Lythia Norvaine
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by ArianeEwah View Post
    ...
    I simply linked your post. There is no issue of 'context'. If you feel that the viewpoint expressed in your own post was inadequately communicated, then it's on you to amend it.

    We're playing in an era that pretty much anyone can tell what sort of 'experience' another player here has. Not just in raw stats, but an analytically minded player can glean most of your strengths and weaknesses as a player.

    When I say that DRK's burst is resource-gated, I don't mean it in the sense that you had to mentally afk for a minute until your gauge maxed out before you could burst. I mean that the length of your burst window is contingent on the amount of incoming resources. It's not enough to say "TA/Embolden is up, so I'll just DA." You need a steady flow of incoming MP from BW/Delirium so that you can DA every GCD. You need C+S synced so that you get an extra DA usage between SE/HS, as HS can't be boosted itself. You need 100% uptime during this, just like with any buff window, because each tick of BW at baseline is worth 67 potency prior to external buffs. A missed GCD, even a missed auto, is a significant loss.

    Ever since Xeno aired his day 3 opinions on DRK, there are a lot of players (most of whom haven't really play the job for any great length of time) who seem keen to write the job off as being simple. It's an opinion founded on ignorance, and there are world-class tanks out there who have expressed opinions to the contrary. It's unthinkable that "job difficulty" has any sort of role in what jobs the best players in the world play. Is it not possible that a couple of the players who cleared the very hardest content ever released in this game were attracted to the job because of its complexity?

    It's not an issue of the job being 'unplayable'. There's no such thing as far as the best players are concerned, which is what you're talking about with Ultimate. It's a question of reward-for-effort.
    (5)
    Last edited by Lyth; 11-15-2017 at 04:54 PM.