Just want to play black mage, man.

[Karshan]

People don't bring RDM to Unending Coil dear. Dying means you fail, no if's and's or but's about it.

Yes, no death in the last part, but before killing the damn thing there is 18 mins of fight, you don't know them by heart magically, you die and retry. RDM helps a lot to have that "die" come later in the fight to allow you to see more phases. Also, since the rotation is less punitive, when you reach a part of the fight you don't know you can maintain a decent DPS. Much more complicated in SMN (well, for midcore actually, maybe hardcore have no trouble with SMN rotation in unknown fights)

RDM is a godsend for prog. After that, yeah it sucks because if you don't need raises you have less DPS for no reasons.

[Frizze]

People don't bring RDM to Unending Coil dear. Dying means you fail, no if's and's or but's about it.

The world first clear had 1 death toward the end of i think the Nael phase(one of the healers - the other guy got him right back up). The world 2nd had 3 or 4 spread out in the earlier parts of the fight(mostly or all DPS deaths). Clearly a couple deaths that arent at the wrong part of the fight and dont come with a botched mechanic that destroys everything are recoverable.

[Remedi]

The problem is you can do the same with a SMN, RDM ress overtakes a SMN when there are 3 deaths at the same time or very close by and if that happens in ultimate you are probably gonna wipe, many teams have reported a substantial increase of dps by switching from RDM to SMN ( or simply going double ranged meta).
We are not saying that under the right cirucmstances an extra raise isn't useful in ultimate, but saying that it is as strong as O4s is delusional especially when there mechnics that require 8 persons to be alive for them to be passed

[Dualgunner]

The world first clear had 1 death toward the end of i think the Nael phase(one of the healers - the other guy got him right back up). The world 2nd had 3 or 4 spread out in the earlier parts of the fight(mostly or all DPS deaths). Clearly a couple deaths that arent at the wrong part of the fight and dont come with a botched mechanic that destroys everything are recoverable.

I mean...one death. Yes it disproves Prism but at the same time...one death. If they came back from 3+ deaths within one minute I'd say yeah go RDM but until then SMN beats it out.

And if enough people are dying to a mechanic that a RDM's chain rezzes are needed, maybe they need to focus less on seeing more of the fight and more on not dying to the mechanic killing 3+ people in a row. Just my 2 gil.

[Kabooa]

And if enough people are dying to a mechanic that a RDM's chain rezzes are needed, maybe they need to focus less on seeing more of the fight and more on not dying to the mechanic killing 3+ people in a row. Just my 2 gil.

Yeah, but it's easier to see more of the fight when you can chain res, which allows you to focus on the mechanic that's killing you.

It's not like you can go to a practice area, select "The mechanic that's killing us" and only work on that.

You have to get to it again, and having to start over instead of being able to press forward loses much more time.

[Dualgunner]

Yeah, but it's easier to see more of the fight when you can chain res, which allows you to focus on the mechanic that's killing you.

It's not like you can go to a practice area, select "The mechanic that's killing us" and only work on that.

You have to get to it again, and having to start over instead of being able to press forward loses much more time.

Well, people have been saying it's been working for them so I have no real room to argue or judge, just anecdotal experience that when enough people die for RDM to be useful, people are too busy trying to get back to status quo to actually look at mechanics.

Like I said though, that's my own experience. If it helps others out, that's great.

[Remedi]

Yeah, but it's easier to see more of the fight when you can chain res, which allows you to focus on the mechanic that's killing you.

It's not like you can go to a practice area, select "The mechanic that's killing us" and only work on that.

You have to get to it again, and having to start over instead of being able to press forward loses much more time.

Honestly what really matters in a fight like Ultimate is learning on how to deal with mechanics steps by steps, which means wiping on each mechanics times and times again till you learn how to deal it, getting trough a mechanic thanks to chain ress means that something yet doesn't click or maybe just shit happens.

Saying that WF had deaths in their runs when clearing that fight is also extremely stretching it, they already have been in a position like that multiple times so they worked tirelessly to the point they know how to deal with it, but in truth most of the time when you attempt ultimate you simply die

[Frizze]

I dont have a side in the red mage fight. To clarify, i was mostly disputing the guy saying that any deaths = game over. I watched 2 clear videos and both had isolated deaths, so clearly it isnt game over. I also watched 5150 and a few other groups stream attempts over the first week, and saw many botched mechanics just wiping the whole group - no amount of res is helping there. And by no means was it a shot at the WF guys either - they were incredibly clean that run(i didnt notice the death at all on first viewing - it was a rewatch when it caught my eye). All the kudos to them.

[PrismaticDaybreak]

I probably should've phrased it as, "The amount of deaths to make RDM uniquely worth it is a fail."

[zuzu-bq]

I probably should've phrased it as, "The amount of deaths to make RDM uniquely worth it is a fail."

As I said, this is untrue before you reach Trios in Ultimate's progression.