Monk suggestions

[Mahrze]

I've heard of the concept of implementing GL IV as a reserve stack as opposed to an active one. This would mean you could, in theory, have GL IV, use Tornado Kick which puts you down to GL I, and immediately execute a Demolish or Snap Punch, and be back to GL II, effectively making the skill less of a punishment to lose.

Also an idea that occurred to me while tying this out that would be a huge quality of life improvement for maintaining monk stacks, is have each individual stack time out on its own. So say a boss jumps and you have 10 sec of GL left, if you would not be able to refresh it otherwise, rather than lose all three stacks, you go to two stacks with now 16 seconds to gain back your third stack or go back to one stack. This would put the buff more in line with Huton giving you effectively up to 47 seconds to execute a Corel Stance move before losing all your stacks while still putting you back if you can't maintain it fully. This would be even more improved if the fourth reserve stack was a thing. So if the jump was more than 16 seconds and you wouldn't be able to utilize Riddle of Earth, you can still potentially have two or three stacks when combat resumes.

That concept for GL IV feels so lazy if that's their plan I'm flipping tables. MNK has too many "micro-gimmicks" that adding more would stray away from simplification, specially when we have to consider that for the development team, the whole fists thing is a thing.

TK would likely need some sort of carry-over. For instance, if downtime meditation were removable (as most people do not seem to enjoy spamming their key as soon as downtime begins, hoping like hell they'd only recently been able to cap and spend Chakra as not to waste the downtime potential, and since the devs seem unwilling to empower manual Meditation to any point of during-uptime situational viability for modular control), it could source Chakra in a way that cannot be overcapped, allowing then for uses of abilities that may accelerate its way back up to a typical GL level or provide enough relative potency to help maintain a burst phase.

Alternatively, TK could, in addition to its damage, cause the next x strikes to consume GL as its penalty rather than removing the stacks outright, such that it (1) lingers briefly, aiding the return ramp-up, and (2) has no additional penalty during downtime.

Or any combination of whatever to make it feel smooth, viable, and intuitive for the purpose it's meant to fill.

I agree that TK would need a rework because like you mention its a carry over. But obviously MNK would be a bit jarring with all this speed focus when it has a skill suite that is flat or counter-intuitive within itself. But I also feel putting TK on GL is a bit hollow when we also have another resource (chakra) with its own limited usefulness so shifting TK to Chakra usage with it's preq being you being on GL4 status would be pretty nice.

I like the idea, but I feel like getting too much Greased Lightning would make the job less engaging and more difficult. It would be hard to weave in a Steel Peak, for example, if GL IV made skill speed so high as to make weaving skills a DPS loss.

Ideally, Monk would need the same QoL improvement that DRKs, NINs, MCHs, BRDs, and DRGs have also always needed: for their animation times to scale with their current GCDs.

And like a souffle, it all falls flat xD

[Shurrikhan]

That concept for GL IV feels so lazy if that's their plan I'm flipping tables. MNK has too many "micro-gimmicks" that adding more would stray away from simplification, specially when we have to consider that for the development team, the whole fists thing is a thing.

It's not as if Fists, even as a stance, couldn't be integral and interesting.
Fists of Fire -- All damage applies and ramps a short DoT component at a % of the direct damage, and increases the damage of all said DoTs while active --> Increased damage --> Increased relative potency, slightly bankable --> Extended GL pushes.
Fists of Wind -- Increased haste --> More skills usable within the given GL window before being forced downward --> Deeper GL pushes.
Fists of Earth -- Increases the rate at which negative effects fade from you and decreases the rate at which positive effects (including GL) fade from you --> The benefits of RoE already, but far more smoothly.

Heck, rather than just "GL" you could have each apply their own benefit upon Coeurl use. Or they could adjust the GL effect retroactively. Or a combination thereof. Or they could generate unique resource. Anything, really, that isn't just a superfluous 10% movement speed, 10% DR, and what would better -- if the only one really used -- as a passive trait or across-the-board potency buff.

I agree that TK would need a rework because like you mention its a carry over. But obviously MNK would be a bit jarring with all this speed focus when it has a skill suite that is flat or counter-intuitive within itself. But I also feel putting TK on GL is a bit hollow when we also have another resource (chakra) with its own limited usefulness so shifting TK to Chakra usage with it's preq being you being on GL4 status would be pretty nice.

My point was more that at present it isn't a carry-over, but would need to include carry-over in some form if we didn't want to make the difference too shocking, even while fully rewarding its effective decision-making. Essentially, its useful even now in particular niche situations (GL will fall off, no matter what), but I want to see it usable in a broader span of situations, as per one's own plans, rather than just based on what's coming in the fight. That means use during uptime, as well, not just at its tail. And for that to work to a player's satisfaction, it would need to feel okay to use even when there are blows to be struck after it.

I want to feel the differences based on my decisions, to allow for manipulation of timing. If TK were based solely on Chakra, it would just be a matter of "do I want extra damage, or do I want that other thing", and damage would then win out in 99% of situations unless of course that other thing is a rDPS gain, which then follows the same concept. It becomes a checklist, rather than something that you have to think about in context.

And like a souffle, it all falls flat xD

Ehh, no more so than the idea of even being allowed to play NIN below a 2s Huton-GCD. That would be a huge boon for everyone, and a necessity in making Skill Speed a viable stat (alongside changing TP to 50 per GCD (base or current -- wherein NIN/MNK costs would need to be rescaled) instead of 60 per flat 3 seconds, but that's a story for another time).

[Mahrze]

It's not as if Fists, even as a stance, couldn't be integral and interesting.
Fists of Fire -- All damage applies and ramps a short DoT component at a % of the direct damage, and increases the damage of all said DoTs while active --> Increased damage --> Increased relative potency, slightly bankable --> Extended GL pushes.
Fists of Wind -- Increased haste --> More skills usable within the given GL window before being forced downward --> Deeper GL pushes.
Fists of Earth -- Increases the rate at which negative effects fade from you and decreases the rate at which positive effects (including GL) fade from you --> The benefits of RoE already, but far more smoothly..


Heck, rather than just "GL" you could have each apply their own benefit upon Coeurl use. Or they could adjust the GL effect retroactively. Or a combination thereof. Or they could generate unique resource. Anything, really, that isn't just a superfluous 10% movement speed, 10% DR, and what would better -- if the only one really used -- as a passive trait or across-the-board potency buff.

Oh I am aware of the options, I proposed some (blanket) options myself a page or so ago; and it seems overall the MNK community embraces the idea of fist swaps if they actually have something to offer. There's plenty to consider with each of the unfinished concepts that MNK is now wrapped on, but that's where I am getting at. Right now we have two clear resources: GL and Chakra, and both are all burner resources with GL having RoE as a "lifeline".

My point was more that at present it isn't a carry-over, but would need to include carry-over in some form if we didn't want to make the difference too shocking, even while fully rewarding its effective decision-making. Essentially, its useful even now in particular niche situations (GL will fall off, no matter what), but I want to see it usable in a broader span of situations, as per one's own plans, rather than just based on what's coming in the fight. That means use during uptime, as well, not just at its tail. And for that to work to a player's satisfaction, it would need to feel okay to use even when there are blows to be struck after it.

I want to feel the differences based on my decisions, to allow for manipulation of timing. If TK were based solely on Chakra, it would just be a matter of "do I want extra damage, or do I want that other thing", and damage would then win out in 99% of situations unless of course that other thing is a rDPS gain, which then follows the same concept. It becomes a checklist, rather than something that you have to think about in context.

That's something I am on the same terms with, the options on MNK are "make or break" in the use while still losing something important in the end. But so far, the only thing they put in a "use during up-time" scenario is Brotherhood + Forbidden Chakra and the opinion overall is that its another niche skill combination that depends too much on party composition and RNG.

Ehh, no more so than the idea of even being allowed to play NIN below a 2s Huton-GCD. That would be a huge boon for everyone, and a necessity in making Skill Speed a viable stat (alongside changing TP to 50 per GCD (base or current -- wherein NIN/MNK costs would need to be rescaled) instead of 60 per flat 3 seconds, but that's a story for another time).

Yeah, well, I was aiming mostly on the part of: "We have the flashy animations because of flashiness" because it seems the skill animation group wants us to throw fireworks while performing in a Chinese opera on every finisher/opener.