Monk suggestions

[Mikey_R]

This is going to be a long one, things will be moved around compared to the original post, but that's just to make life easier. If anything isn't mentioned, I either agree, or don't have an opinion either way.

Fists of Wind - scraped
Fists of Earth -scraped
Fists of Fire - reworked to passive trait

If you make one into a trait, why not just have them all as a trait? Granted, a permanent 10% damage reduction will be a bit strong, so make it lower, but I don't see the point in making one of the fists a trait and not doing the same to the rest.

Form Shift - scraped
Inner Focus
Effect: While not in Raptor-Form or Courl-Form, Opo-Opo Form is automatically gained.
Pure Will
Effect: If GL runs out by time it sets automatically back to its full lenght. Has a Cd.

You have taken the flexibility of Form Shift, reduced it and split it. Form Shift's boon is that you can switch to any stance you want in downtime, granted, this is mostly Coeurl, but there are times when you do shift into others, losing that flexibility will hinder you in the long run. Inner Focus seems quite frankly, silly. Opo-opo is the worst form to start in damage wise, you need to get that GL going asap, so delaying it by 2 CGDs hurts you that way. As for Pure Will, traits don't have cooldowns for a start, so it would be a new ability, basically RoE but refresh on use rather than on hit, so why not make it that instead. As for Inner Focus, why not change it so that it removes timers from forms? It prevents you from having to spam form shift before a fight as you can just sit in Coeurl waiting, and if you keep form shift, you still get to keep the flexibility added with that as well. Simple and easy.

One Ilm Punch - reworked to a ogcd attack with Cd, gaining 1 GL
Double Courl Fists
Effect: Changing Shoulder Tackle into Double Courl Fists
Double Courl Fists: Rushes towards an enemy, inflicting dmg to it and all enemys in the way, stunning the Target, gaining 1 GL.

Personally, I'm not a fan of the idea of having oGCDs applying GL, however, if you take these skills and put them into the toolkit you provided as a whole, it then just seems to me like you saw the problem with starting a fight in Opo-opo, as it delays GL aquisition, and tried to fix it by adding these two as a way to remedy it, that's about the only gripe I have.

Riddle of Fire - reworked to increasing attack speed by 15%

I think 15% is a bit too much, however, if you make it a temporary GL4, that would be better in my opinion.


Overall, while this is my thoughts on what you have suggested, I feel it's just trying to add things to monk it doesn't need, just adding things for the sake of adding things. Keep the changes simple, yet effective. The monk doesn't need much to make it fun again, but go too far, and you add complexity where it isn't needed, and that can be just as bad.

[Kreyd]

If you make one into a trait, why not just have them all as a trait? Granted, a permanent 10% damage reduction will be a bit strong, so make it lower, but I don't see the point in making one of the fists a trait and not doing the same to the rest.

Possible, yes. Movement and less damage taken is always nice, but it's nothing the monk really relies on. Technically they are not there at all, cause nearly nobody uses them, so I put them to scrap. But yes, they could be turned into traits instead.

I think 15% is a bit too much, however, if you make it a temporary GL4, that would be better in my opinion.

15% may be a bit much, but many people complain about RoF making MNK slow and a plain Dmg increase seemed to boring, so I choosed this instead.

Personally, I'm not a fan of the idea of having oGCDs applying GL, however, if you take these skills and put them into the toolkit you provided as a whole, it then just seems to me like you saw the problem with starting a fight in Opo-opo, as it delays GL aquisition, and tried to fix it by adding these two as a way to remedy it, that's about the only gripe I have.

Actually, it was the exact other way around.

Because of the change of Deep Meditation, I was afraid of building up 5 Chakras for TFC/Hurricane Kick just by Courl form abilities could take too long, so I put a GL/Chakra gain to OIP (giving it a right to exist after years) and Double Courl Fists (replacing Tackle Mastery). Also, gaining 3GL on a pull would be way easier with this, so starting in Opo-Opo for Dragon Kick and Twin Viper makes a lot more sense than it does now.

As for Inner Focus, why not change it so that it removes timers from forms? It prevents you from having to spam form shift before a fight as you can just sit in Coeurl waiting, and if you keep form shift, you still get to keep the flexibility added with that as well. Simple and easy.

Inner Focus's main goal actually should be, to prevent MNK from beeing formless, after beeing stunned, dead etc. and not to replace Form shift. But after the changes to the other abilites I just realised that Form Shift isn't need anymore, so I scrapped it, getting rid of beeing forced to form dance before and in every boss fight.

But your way would work quiet nicely too.

As for Pure Will, traits don't have cooldowns for a start, so it would be a new ability, basically RoE but refresh on use rather than on hit, so why not make it that instead.

Okay, you got me on that one. xD I didn't consider that traits didn't have Cd's. So yes, your way of a reworked RoE would definitely be better.


All in all I tried to think of "what would make fun to play" rather than just "how to fix problems quick" and to take on problems many people seem to complain about (OIP, Tornado Kick, Tackle Mastery etc.) I guess the most simple ways to fix MNK would just lenghten the duration of Forms and GL.

[Shurrikhan]

All in all I tried to think of "what would make fun to play" rather than just "how to fix problems quick" and to take on problems many people seem to complain about (OIP, Tornado Kick, Tackle Mastery etc.) I guess the most simple ways to fix MNK would just lenghten the duration of Forms and GL.

This definitely seems to be the way to go.

Personally, though, I find the results you've ended up at -- quite practically -- to be pruned to the point that it'd scarcely be fun to play to me. I'd much rather see Fists of Wind, Earth, and Fire, for instance, be made more fluid, integral, and distinctly significant rather than outright pruned, but that would likely require turning them into something else entirely.

[Fhyrr]

This definitely seems to be the way to go.

Personally, though, I find the results you've ended up at -- quite practically -- to be pruned to the point that it'd scarcely be fun to play to me. I'd much rather see Fists of Wind, Earth, and Fire, for instance, be made more fluid, integral, and distinctly significant rather than outright pruned, but that would likely require turning them into something else entirely.

And that is what they require precisely: Turning into something else entirely that potentiates interability play. I would even argue, on top of the effects they would bring, to have their effects linger for x amount of time as you keep shifting them - but for some people that may feel like a lot of clicking. In my opinion, if they wish for Fists to remain as stances/abilities, then they need to make them flow with the kit, all of them. If they cant or don't want to, they may as well be traits then.


Or turn all of them into utility flavoured things that require cycling along them, as you shift between the two major rotations we have... or... something! Novelty is required, regardless of where we look to - useful novelty (for this actual game that is. The idea is not that new x3 )

[Shurrikhan]

And that is what they require precisely: Turning into something else entirely that potentiates interability play. I would even argue, on top of the effects they would bring, to have their effects linger for x amount of time as you keep shifting them - but for some people that may feel like a lot of clicking. In my opinion, if they wish for Fists to remain as stances/abilities, then they need to make them flow with the kit, all of them. If they cant or don't want to, they may as well be traits then.


Or turn all of them into utility flavoured things that require cycling along them, as you shift between the two major rotations we have... or... something! Novelty is required, regardless of where we look to - useful novelty (for this actual game that is. The idea is not that new x3 )

Quite so. It's just a sizable headache to figure out exactly how to create those effects, or where they'd best be placed within the Monk's mechanics.

Should they be the means of returned modular control to form cycles, or should they be the reason for cycling?
Should Monk have an open rotation where flowing through the rotation favors generation of one stance's mechanics, while opting into the occasion repeat or swap-up when procs allow favors another?
Should these stances be driven by shared-resource oGCDs like Steel Peak, Searing Palm, Windstep, or should every oGCD vary with stance while retaining manual control?
How can the stances be distinct while still offering not only viability to each, but also swapping out which is ideal at what timing in general situations?
Should GL be replaced by, work with, or remain wholly separate from stance-based generated buffs like, say, Windform, Chi-flame, and Ironskin?
And the list goes on...

[Fhyrr]

Snip

And that kind of improvement is what we need to try to aim for and discuss and beg SE for. Not bandaid fixes, but actual mechanics to the class that build upon it. If they don't want to make it too complicated, draw from the SAM gauge with the 3 symbols - but in our case it has to do with our 3 stances... I'm sure there are many ways to make something like this unique, we'd just need to discuss how, and how to make it interesting in contact with what we already have as the core of the class.

Maybe the stances build a specific resource with each finished rotation. A resource that you'd burn for added buffs to yourself or the group? Or maybe just have your rotation build a resource that you'd use your stances to activate x y or z effect for your group? That way it gives raid utility...

So many ways to go on about it... we just need to find a way that seems pleasant for a suggestion for a lot of players