Built-in Parsers

[Miste]

most are more pleasent then ppl like you.

You are the one who is being rude, so honestly I find it funny you talk about people being "pleasant" when you certainly aren't being so.

you got stuff to back up your statement? proof im false cuz all I see is "what ifs" you not giving full details to your hyperbole.

The proof is in the game itself. If you played end game in FFXIV for longer than 10 mins you would know that a statement like "all mistakes are recoverable" and "no game content has a no win scenario" are false. You would also know that some mechanics in this game can cause wipes if even just one person fails it.

Yes, sometimes mistakes are recoverable, but depending on the mistake and how much of an impact it has some mistakes are not feasibly recoverable by the majority of players and some situations are 100% not recoverable at all.

i actually do said content jusy not at the moment, and i skipped alexander S because it simply wasn't my thing. I'm ps4 and tbh, never wiped my pt. so please.. grow up and stop being an E. never in mmo is 1 person at fault for 8 ppl dying. everyone has their fair share in the blame, no matter what "examples" you try to use, you are missing details on how/why that even happen. just pointing out the end result.

Which is what you guys like doing, making examples but leaving details out.

such as did anyone communicate a strategy? Did anyone give tanks a heads up on what to mitigate, and roughly around when? (fights are scripted by hp%)

You want some actual mechanic proof?

O4S Allagan Field mechanic. If the person with field stands in the wrong spot (close to Neo and not in the back of the line for the wild charge) it will explode and wipe the entire raid. ONE player can cause this to happen if they fail the mechanic. Allagan Field has been around since coil as well and if I remember correctly it behaved the same way. The person with the field had to avoid damage otherwise it would explode and kill everyone.

O2S. Bomb mechanic. 4 designated players must levitate and get blown back to different cardinal directions otherwise the raid gets hit by a room wide AoE that one shots anything that isn't a tank. If one DPS player fails this mechanic it will kill both of your healers and if you have no RDM or SMN in your party composition then you are dead since no one can raise the healers. Very no win scenario right here.

A12S Temporal Stasis. Again 4 players are marked with area bombs similar to O2S. If one DPS does not move to their designated spot they can single handedly kill both of your healers and result in a non recoverable no win scenario if you had no SMN to even attempt to raise your healers (ignoring RDM since RDM didn't exist in HW when A12S was current content)

A11S last phase towers. A single player can put their circle AoE on the tower when they aren't supposed to. You require at least one tower still up to survive. If all towers get destroyed the battlefield immediately collapses killing the entire raid. A single player can accidentally break the towers.

Communicating a strategy doesn't somehow make people immune to mistakes so I don't even get what you are trying to say here. Mistakes happen even when people know the entire fight.

Also...you've "never" wiped a party highly likely means either A) you obviously haven't done savage much at all (or even general endgame content O.o) OR B) you are blind to your own mistakes and/or don't want to accept the blame for your own mistakes when you are the cause of a wipe. You want to pretend that there are always others to share the blame with in order to make yourself feel better. Sometimes the blame is shared this is true, but sometimes the fault can lie with one player depending on the circumstances.

Believe me I have single handedly wiped a group before due to my own mistake and the times where it was 100% my fault alone it was one person who wiped the group: me. I don't live in lala land and pretend I can never make mistakes and cause wipes in a raid. I failed the Allagan Field mechanic in O4S where it was fatal. Wiped the entire group and it was entirely my fault for forgetting what to do. In ExDeath also the Fire III mechanic me and my boyfriend (who is the other healer) have killed each other with the Fire III. Both healers dead and no one to raise them = no win scenario = wipe, and I caused it by forgetting not to move too early and end up too close to him during that mechanic. 100% my fault and my fault alone.

So no Hyomin is not an "E" just because she countered your claims and clarified they are false. Is that like the go to whenever someone comes across an argument they cannot find a way to counter or something? "Oh I have no idea how to counter their argument so I'll just call them elitist and tell them to grow up". Like...really???

May want to stop cherry picking my posts and actually read/consider what i actually said.

No, you need to start listening to what others are telling you. More than three people now have been telling you what you are claiming is false. So yes, you do not know what you are talking about if you think that one player cannot cause a wipe by themselves. Even the O2S scenario I mentioned another poster told you about it already earlier in the thread, yet you conveniently ignored it. I wonder why you ignored it...hmm maybe because it quite obviously proves you are incorrect?

Treating it like a job isn't necessarily meaning putting in long hours, though if you raid I really doubt raiders are putting in less than 15-20 on the game total per week, and maybe more. It means you view it in the same ways you view work and talk about it like work. Your concern is with performance, compensation, attendance, giving proper notice when leaving, relative status, and people not pulling their weight.

How can you make assumptions like this on how everyone views raiding? Just because I raid I must view it like work? Just because I play a certain amount of hours I must view it like work?

I raid and I do not treat it like a job. Some players in my static and past statics play less than 15-20 per week; including myself on some occasions.

How can you tell me what my concerns are just because I raid? I mean...can you read the minds of all the raiders in this game? I doubt it. Your generalizations are pointless.

[Shurrikhan]

People don't want raiding culture to spread to the rest of the game. Raiders treat this game like a job, and the fun they get out of it is like the fun people get out of a job. But the negative aspects of raiding are similar to the negative aspects of a job. If that spreads to casual content, well, people who treat this game as something they do to relax and not something they do to work at in order to gain status won't be happy with the change.

What part of raiding culture?

Heck, which raiding culture?

There's a huge spectrum from committed progression groups to your average raider, to even your more casual raider beyond that.

The only commonality you'll find across all groups of raiders is that they find reason enough to raid for approximately as many hours as they do (some days seeming not quite worth it, and some days leaving them wanting more).

These are not some distinct set of players. Those who progress more quickly are usually spend more effective time raiding (this including the quality of said time, such as how logical their approach to the challenge is and how focused and free from or resistant to negatively-affecting stress they are during its execution), as with almost every task in life, but just as not all remote plane hobbyists are aeronautical engineers, not all raiders go about raiding like a profession, let alone experts therein.

[akaneakki]

It's a change in mindset, and to be honest not a particularly good one.

We all know FF14 is a heavy focused Pve game? Now let me explain this to you. You do PvE content, your duty is to kill the boss/trash adds etc right? What happens when you dont kill them? Do you lose or win? It's obvious, you lose. Your job to do these duties, especially in a big Pve focused game is to actually clear shit, not look around on sightseing or are we? About performence, again, this is a game where your goal is to win not to lose. Attendance,so what? No differnt than planning out a game night with your friends playing call of duty after work or something else no? It's a multiplayer game, youre supposed to play with others. Proper notice when leaving? Why not? Not like dc from my ps4 on my friend on cod or any other game without saying when I have to go or not. Relative status? what?????? And again, please explain why you try to argue about something you CLEARLY have NO clue about. I'm waiting.

May want to stop cherry picking my posts and actually read/consider what i actually said.

You keep saying you have a lot of MMO experience and there is no MMO a person could wipe the whole group or in case the 7(8) players in FF14 for example. You talked about people who are leading the games doesn't want parsers, yet we see them in gw2 and BnS. Your point again? You talk about you do content.... yet you have NO clue what you talk about. There are no mechanic that wipes an entire group? You talk about knowledge, when we clearly see you have none of it. Why are you trying to convience us when you barely can convience yourself you actually do content?

[Baingoleth]

Since ACT can listen on any network interface, couldn't a PS4 user set up internet connection sharing on a windows computer, connect their PS4 through that computer and just run ACT that way? I don't have a PS4 but it's something a resourceful PS4 user might want to try.

[BigRed5392]

snip

wasn't braging, just saying im not new. Though i am proving people who are pro parser don;t actually read poss in full, and cherry pick out snips to be angry about to feel justified.

I was saying I played mmo before parser, like ff11.

also played dcuo, which has 1 built in.

yall acting like i am against parser... I never stated once I was. I just find the user made ones have a margin of error.


I just hate the "one person can cause a wipe" bs I never seen it happen, I see a domino effect due to vindictiveness, and I see ppl who like to cherry pick posts and name.shame others for having a difference in opinion. I see people who think if you don't use third party tools you suck by default.

also playing 30 mmo in 10 years is not hard. you take breaks between content updates.

[HyoMinPark]

that was an outliner group. I did say trolls exist on jp side. Most my experiences have been plesent. in fact most my coil wins were on jp. I was on tonberry. Never had an issue with jp players, most are more pleasent then ppl like you.

Anecdotal experience does not equate to fact. Do you have any hard data that is not anecdotal that there are more “trolls” or “elitists” on the NA/EU side compared to JP? Because all I have seen is anecdote after anecdote.

Also, last I heard, Tonberry was the Oceania server, not really part of the other JP servers, since the overwhelming majority of players on Tonberry are not from Japan, but form Oceania. As for my pleasantry, I didn’t realize that disagreeing with you on an online discussion forum was being unpleasant. At least I don’t use backhandedly condescending remarks or smiley faces.

you got stuff to back up your statement? proof im false cuz all I see is "what ifs" you not giving full details to your hyperbole.

The burden of proof lies with you, since you are the one claiming that “all mistakes are recoverable” and “it is impossible for 1 person and 1 mistake to wipe an entire party.” Also, perhaps I should give you the definition of “hyperbole”, since you clearly do not know what it means.

Hyperbole: noun Rhetoric.

1. obvious and intentional exaggeration.
2. an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as “to wait an eternity.”

None of the examples I gave were gross exaggerations—therefore, not hyperbole. Don’t throw around words you don’t know how to properly use, because they aren’t helping you.

I suggest you get a ps4, log into DCUO it has a built in parser. play for 3 mnths and see how it is.

Like dualgunner already said—this would be an anecdotal experience. What if my DCUO experience was better than the one you’ve apparently had? Since you seem to think anecdotal > quantitative data, I suppose that would only hurt your argument.

and lastly, i got 30+ mmo under my belt, i got 10 years of mmo under my belt. I was playing them before parsers were a thing, how do you think people did end game?

I’m going to be frank—I don’t care how many MMOs you have played, or how many years you supposedly have “under your belt.” I asked you about your experience in THIS game. Since you have failed to provide me with any proof that you have done Savage content (no Alexander, no Omega), your “30+ mmo” and “10 years of mmo” experience has no bearing on the discussion we are having about THIS GAME.

Also, more anecdotes.

everything you stated requires 0 parser. More team communication. You enjoy cherry picking my posts btw. I stated my examples from actual experience. I'm not seeing experience from you just "what if".

Anecdotes. Again, anecdotes are not facts.

i actually do said content jusy not at the moment, and i skipped alexander S because it simply wasn't my thing. I'm ps4 and tbh, never wiped my pt. so please.. grow up and stop being an E. never in mmo is 1 person at fault for 8 ppl dying. everyone has their fair share in the blame, no matter what "examples" you try to use, you are missing details on how/why that even happen. just pointing out the end result.

See my post above—you don’t do Savage content, and apparently not much Ex trials content, so why are you trying to have a discussion involving parsers being used in content you don’t even partake in? And I played on PS4 for over a year. Your point in bringing that up is...what?

What is an “E”? I’m assuming you’re calling me an “elitist”, and I hate to say, but my disagreeing with you and poking holes in your extremely flawed arguments doesn’t make me an “elitist.” Yet another word you toss around without actually seeming to know what it means.

And, Miste, myself, dualgunner, Bourne_Endeavor, and many, many others have already given you example after example of where, in FFXIV, it is entirely possible for 1 player to wipe an entire party. You just refuse to acknowlegde them because they basically destroy your entire “argument.”

Which is what you guys like doing, making examples but leaving details out.

We gave you examples and details. You just like to ignore them.

such as did anyone communicate a strategy? Did anyone give tanks a heads up on what to mitigate, and roughly around when? (fights are scripted by hp%)

Aside from going in completely and totally blind, it’s pretty safe to say that a tank should absolutely know to use their CDs whenever they see a boss charging up for an attack. Especially if they have some ominous charge-up animation like Alexander’s Punishing Heat. Considering that we are discussing Savage, it is also safe to assume that the tanks have done Normal Mode (required for actually unlocking each and every tier of Savage, even Second Coil Savage), where Punishing Heat was also a tankbuster that stung quite a bit. And they should know that, in Savage, it’s going to hurt a lot more. Unmitigated Punishing Heat is a one-shot in A12S back when it was relevant, by the way. Same for Exdeath’s Thunder III tank buster.

To not use mitigation is poor tanking in anything but a 100% blind run. There is no other excuse for failing to utilitize your kit as a tank.

also please point out where i said parser are bad? I never said that. I said user made parser have a margin of error due to errors in coding, not being able to get extract damage algorithms.
All i said is you don't need a parser to get better, which is the argument i hate that people toss around. People act like if you don't parse by default you suck.

May want to stop cherry picking my posts and actually read/consider what i actually said.

I don’t feel like quoting entire posts written by you, especially when others have already pointed out where you have said “parsers are bad”. But you have said time and time again based off of your own anecdotal experiences, not only how “bad” parsers are, but how bad NA/EU communities are in general when it comes to running with groups in content that use parsers. If you love the JP community so much, then why are you playing on an NA server?

And please, take your own advice.

I just hate the "one person can cause a wipe" bs I never seen it happen, I see a domino effect due to vindictiveness, and I see ppl who like to cherry pick posts and name.shame others for having a difference in opinion. I see people who think if you don't use third party tools you suck by default.

I love this. We’re the one calling you names, but you called me “an E” in your last response to me. Well done!

[BigRed5392]

He barely even runs ex primals if his mounts on the lodestone are anything to go by.

you do know name/shame is against the forum rules ya?

I don't have ex mount cuz I don't farm them enough for 99 totems, nor get lucky on mount drops. doesn't mean I don't run them

[Bourne_Endeavor]

People don't want raiding culture to spread to the rest of the game. Raiders treat this game like a job, and the fun they get out of it is like the fun people get out of a job. But the negative aspects of raiding are similar to the negative aspects of a job. If that spreads to casual content, well, people who treat this game as something they do to relax and not something they do to work at in order to gain status won't be happy with the change.

Suppose the Monk is my group is auditioning for American Idol then because he's randomly broken into song for no reason except to be funny. Our Bard worn her pig outfit she called "my outfit of shame!" Do we have serious moments or argue amongst ourselves? Absolutely. We still treat raiding as a fun activity even when we dispense the memes and push for clears. Would you fancy I call all non-raiders casuals who just suck at the game? Is that a fair generalization of players who may simply not find Savage fun? It's no different than lumping all raiders under the umbrella of elitism either.

you got stuff to back up your statement? proof im false cuz all I see is "what ifs" you not giving full details to your hyperbole.

I repeat, since you apparently missed my example.

Story time!

Just the other night during our weeklies clears, I misread my buffs in Neo and Elusive Jumped with Allagan Field thinking it was Acceleration Bomb + Unbalance. The result was my death by flipping off the platform. This triggers Allagan immediately, spending a massive high damaging shockwave across the entire raid. Now, do explain how the healers, tanks or three other DPS are at fault for my mistake. I suppose our Scholar should've had telepathy and known to Rescue in that precise moment so I wouldn't fall off right?

never in mmo is 1 person at fault for 8 ppl dying. everyone has their fair share in the blame, no matter what "examples" you try to use, you are missing details on how/why that even happen. just pointing out the end result.

This is categorically false. Even in dungeons, one person can easily cause a wipe. Just this morning I had a healer who perpetually left my health at near critical levels. I'm on Dark Knight and properly rotating my CDs. What more can I do if I'm flat out not getting healed?

I mean, let's take this nonsense to its logical extreme. By your statement, I could straight up not heal you on White Mage and you still share in the blame for your inevitable death. That makes absolutely no sense.

[RiyahArp]

Look, any type of raiding at some point is work, because it boils down to showing up at a predetermined time, being ready for your job by a lot of practice or research, and then doing a single fifteen minute instance over and over dozens of times to clear it, then dozens more to farm it. It is not something you do for fun because the fun is generally leeched out of it after the tenth wipe. You succeed by going past that and treating it professionally, in the same way you treat a job or a sport professionally. If you base it solely on it being fun, that's when people suddenly up and leave one day. To spend time practicing your rotation is work, too; it's not fun to be in front of a training dummy repeating the same old motions till they are ingrained.

No matter if you raid 3 hours a week or 30, at some point if you are even the slightest bit serious about clearing, it becomes work to you in terms of your mindset. It's actually scary at times, because it winds up being so much like work that you even have "company" events to blow off steam, like drunk runs or gag runs. And people talk about raiding like it was money...we have welfare gear and there are people who don't deserve things, as if you "deserved" to have a token in Monopoly or to win at tag.

The fact that people here want parsers is a subset of the idea of game as work. It is necessary for raid play, I won't argue that. Because raid play ultimately is this game as work. People worry though when parsers are legitimized because the people who raid seem to want sometimes the entire game to be similar work. But a lot of people dislike the whole raid culture in general, because it's become a job-substitute for people. You already have hard times convincing new people to work for you in your statics, can you imagine if it spread to all parts of the game?

[BigRed5392]

im not being rude, jusy pointing out missing details

did anyone in the group notify people that standing in said spot can kill people? no? group fault.

you guys are missing a lot of details in your explains such as planning before hand, run/strat explination, leadership. Which is part of doing endgame content. If people fail at doing this stuff they are part of the fault for the mistakes of others.

how are people missing this part.

3 ppl cherry picking posts is really nothing. nor proof i "don't know what im talking about" I did endgame in ff11 for 4 years before this type of toxic environment with parser/third party tools killed it.

I very much know what im talking about, you guys are looking at semantics while leaving out details. Each member has a job to do, a role to play. A leader still needs to be a leader and communicate. And take responsibility, if a run fails. The leader is suppose to organize, communicate, discuss the plan of attack. If the runs plan goes south, everyone is at fault.

A group is a unit, not separate pieces. Pointing fingers is childish. Even if you didn't kill the group, you just are much responsible for not doing your part in the communication for the run. you was a member of that group, you are part of that group, and should take responsibility. Pointing fingers isn't being a good team member.


@ thread

everyone here really should stop the vendetta against me as imo i did nothing wrong, but give my opinion on the matter. And say my beliefs.

but honestly, i never stated i hate parser, never stated no one should use them

all i stated was you don't need to use a parser to be good. all i stated was everyone in the group is/should be responsible if a run goes south. Mostly because that's the truth. If you don't act like a team, you won't beat content.

acting like a team does include communication before a run, make sure people know what to do. Know where to stand. Use markers, macros with speech text to impotent skills (raise/voke/ect) If you just jump into content expecting a win, you are part of the groups issue if runs go south. You gotta make sure people are on the same page before you start. A leader who doesn't do this is just as much fault, as the person who stood in fire. Who is just as much fault as the healer who refused to raise them out of spite.

and the smile faces are letting ppl know im not being nasty/angry. That im trying to be pleasant. this post is gonna get cherry picked to hell so, ya not expecting much after this. lol