RAVE: RDM are amazing rezzing, dps, and support machines

[Lambdafish]

Those who said that rdm is useless other than progression party have obviously never seen how much godly rdm is in solo healing situation... So its extremely good in progression group and its the best support for solo healing raids.. Sure your dps with be quite low in these situation but you'll still do around 3k which is better than a 2nd healer AND you will have a 5th dps...

Useless later on? I doubt it.

This is a fair point, and is an additional concern for the balance of RDMs healing utility.

[TelosNox]

RDM has too low dps for the minimum of support it has.

Vercure is not relevant in Raidcontent
Verraise: No top RDM wants to raise 2-3times in a row because mana is an issue (RDM already NEEDS lucid dreaming to do dps, without RDM get's oom after 6 minutes).
Embolden is one of the (or maybe THE) weakest raidbuff overall.

The only really impressive on RDM is it has high burst. It does a lot of burst dps at beginning of the fight when CDs are all ready.
And RDM can "burst" raise. But: Do 3 Raise and you will go OOM. Do 3 Raise with a SMN and there is no Problem at all.

[Darkkos]

(RDM already NEEDS lucid dreaming to do dps, without RDM get's oom after 6 minutes).

Hmmm you dont need to use lucid dreaming at all in any of the omega savage if you dont raise . Maybe you're having issues because you dont use your melee combo asap and manafication when needed . Hell, even when mana shifting every time its up I never go oom...

[Claire_Pendragon]

Hmmm you dont need to use lucid dreaming at all in any of the omega savage if you dont raise . Maybe you're having issues because you dont use your melee combo asap and manafication when needed . Hell, even when mana shifting every time its up I never go oom...

He might not have a BRD/MCH, as that alone makes a huge difference when i joined pugged savage groups, and theres no BRD/MCH.
Manashifting was a bigger drain on MP, and rezzing became far riskier.

[Zojha]

Or we need to take the 'support role' designed classes and make them official.

And what does that even change?

Let's assume we assign RDM the "support role". Are they any more or less useful to a group over it? No. Gameplay hasn't changed. The label is different, but the benefit they bring to a group is still the same and all the implications that come with it as well.
But let's go a step further, embrace the support role and shower RDM with group buffs and utility. IF you keep the job balanced, that will come at increasing cost to the job's other capabilities - DPS, Healing Power, Survivability, the strength of already existing buffs, Mana costs etc etc. The overall raid DPS they contribute wouldn't change and since verraise and vercure still exist, they still cut into the power budget and decrease the raid DPS they bring, making other jobs more favorable for the exact same reasons as now. And any further defensive utility you add would only exacerbate the issue, as that cuts into the overall power budget just like raise/cure do now.

The end goal of each encounter is to reduce a health bar to 0, hence why damage is of supreme importance over anything else. Mitigation, Healing, Raises, support spells, all of them are only as valuable as they help reaching the end. Tanks and healers thus are innately useless, because mitigating/undoing damage doesn't get you any closer to your goal, they are artificially given use by making enemies deal truckloads of damage you cannot avoid and cannot endure without these specific roles, which greatly reduces the amount of damage you can deal in an encounter without them (dead people do no damage after all). However, the usefulness of their core role is capped at these demands you artificially put up and thus their entire optimization process revolves around reducing core activities for more damage.

Supportive abilities are measured by the same standard and any support role you conjure as well. Defensive support abilities matter insofar as that they increase group DPS or enable tanks/healers to deal with the set demands when they otherwise couldn't and both tanks and healers are so broken already that they can not only deal with any demands easily, they can spend ample time just DPSing on top, which means defensive utility only gets its value from the increased DPS it allows by reducing the amount of healing casts needed - that's highly negligible. Hence why Monks in HW didn't even count improved Mantra for utility.

And this is also what another poster here already picked up on - Solo healing. The argument was that by putting a RDM into the second healer spot, you can get more overall DPS into the group while still meeting the set content demands for tanking/healing. That's why it can be useful. Now go and take a look back above - It's always the same procedure, minimize the useless but necessary tanking/healing and maximize the group DPS. Solo tanking also exists in content that allows it for the same reason.

Roles and their labels are ultimately entirely irrelevant. Your support role would just be subjected to the same procedure. And in that regard, I have to concur - there is no point in having a dedicated "DPS role". Every role is ultimately a DPS role.

[TelosNox]

Hmmm you dont need to use lucid dreaming at all in any of the omega savage if you dont raise . Maybe you're having issues because you dont use your melee combo asap and manafication when needed . Hell, even when mana shifting every time its up I never go oom...

I use melee combo as often as possible and in my last O3s I reached 96%, so I already do near maximum possible dps (my grear is not best yet and I don't use best food and I don't use any pots). So: No it is not the reason.
https://www.fflogs.com/reports/7qdw1...=25&spell=1001
See here how mana goes straight down to 50% in 3minutes. So after 6min I would be OOM without Bard or Lucid Dreaming (no raise, no mana shift).

I have a Bard in my group but mana comes late there and only 2 times in the complete fight.

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/htxQV...e=6&spell=1001
If that is you, then you drain your mana even faster than me. Without lucid or Bard you would be OOM too. And you used no manashift at all.

[zuzu-bq]

Devs themselves said they already abandoned the idea of designing the "support" role long ago.