Built-in Parsers

[AlexionSkylark]

What exactly would be the issue of seeing your team members' numbers as well?.

How about Which hunting and finger pointing? AKA harassment?

In the current situation people are FORBIDDEN to do it openly risking a report.

[Taika]

How about Which hunting and finger pointing? AKA harassment?

Harassment is and will be a reportable offense no matter if parsers are allowed or not. Also, it's important to separate discussing performance from harassing a player about their performance. Like I've said before in one of these threads:

Right now you can say "You're performing really badly!" and that's not considered harassment. Then you could say "You're performing really badly: your DPS is only 2500 when it should be 4000!". And again, if you add any personal insults or bad language to those, they'll turn into harassment, despite if numbers have been used or not. The main difference in my eyes is that when the numbers are used, the person receiving the critisism will know if it's based on facts or not.

[AlexionSkylark]

snip

As of now, if someone says to someone in my party "You're performing really badly!" I can jump in and say "AND HOW EXACTLY WOULD YOU KNOW THAT? are you using a parser, by any chance?" And the guy would NEED to back down or risk bring reported. If parsers are allowed, he is also entitled to do that which is doing. Which is something neither SE nor all the people against parsers in this and in the myriad of threads over the subject condone.

Again, the way it is right now is more than enough. You're free to use it for your personal use, but NOT to JUDGE OTHER PEOPLE'S PERFORMANCE PUBLICLY.

[Taika]

As of now, if someone says to someone in my party "You're performing really badly!" I can jump in and say "AND HOW EXACTLY WOULD YOU KNOW THAT? are you using a parser, by any chance?"

And then the person says "I'm checking "the enmity meter", your ability use and the damage log" and everyone knows what they're talking about. What you're advocating is people bullying others with a threat of reporting to force them to hide the objective facts about underperformers. Again, no one should be harassed or bullied, over their DPS or HPS or anything else in this game, that should always be reported and otherwise dealt with. But you can't force people to carry others who aren't willing or able to meet the content or party requirements. That's not fair either.

[AlexionSkylark]

What you're advocating is people bullying others with a threat of reporting to force them to hide the objective facts about underperformers.

Wait, are you really trying to turn this around and say that I'm harassing the person by taking away his right of harassing others over their performance?

[Taika]

Wait, are you really trying to turn this around and say that I'm harassing the person by taking away his right of harassing others over their performance?

No I'm not. Like I've said a billion times, harassment should never be allowed, for numbers, performance, anything. But pointing out someone is doing significantly less than they should be, or messing up every mechanic in a fight they have said they know, is not harassment. But threatening to report someone and try to get them banned just because they're pointing out someone isn't meeting the content's expectations sure is.

[AlexionSkylark]

No I'm not. Like I've said a billion times, harassment should never be allowed, for numbers, performance, anything. But pointing out someone is doing significantly less than they should be, or messing up every mechanic in a fight they have said they know, is not harassment. But threatening to report someone and try to get them banned just because they're pointing out someone isn't meeting the content's expectations sure is.

Just let us put this into context. Are you dealing with matchmaking content? (Roulettes, Raid Finder, and PuGs in general)? or a PF group? If on a PF, did you state clearly in recruitment the kind of level of ability and knowledge of the fight you're expecting? Or are we talking about a static?
We really need some context here, because each of those situations should handle that conundrum differently.

[Niwashi]

But pointing out someone is doing significantly less than they should be, or messing up every mechanic in a fight they have said they know, is not harassment.

Parsers aren't going to tell you about who is messing up mechanics, anyway. You have to watch their actions to see that part. So even though it's generally far more important to how well people are performing, it's still a bit off-topic in this discussion.

As to someone doing less than they should be (as in simply getting lower numbers), the issue is who decides what they *should* be getting. That's where the biggest difference between the so-called casuals and so-called hardcores lies, in what sort of numbers they consider good. Hardcore players tend to want the best possible numbers, and will frequently berate anyone with lower numbers than themselves (regardless of whether the content actually requires those numbers or not), whereas casuals generally just want enough to get through the run. If you're telling someone they're doing less than they should, you're imposing your own view on what they "should" be doing. Maybe their standards are just lower.

By keeping each player's numbers to themselves, a personal parser allows each to decide where they want their numbers to be and optimize their play to their own goals. Certainly, everyone's goals are going to include completing the content, so high enough to meet any DPS checks would be a goal you'd have in common. But beyond that, goals vary too widely.

[Ilan]

As of now, if someone says to someone in my party "You're performing really badly!" I can jump in and say "AND HOW EXACTLY WOULD YOU KNOW THAT? are you using a parser, by any chance?" And the guy would NEED to back down or risk bring reported. If parsers are allowed, he is also entitled to do that which is doing. Which is something neither SE nor all the people against parsers in this and in the myriad of threads over the subject condone.

Again, the way it is right now is more than enough. You're free to use it for your personal use, but NOT to JUDGE OTHER PEOPLE'S PERFORMANCE PUBLICLY.

Do you really think that someone needs a parser to see if someone is playing bad?

[Niwashi]

Right now you can say "You're performing really badly!" and that's not considered harassment. Then you could say "You're performing really badly: your DPS is only 2500 when it should be 4000!". And again, if you add any personal insults or bad language to those, they'll turn into harassment, despite if numbers have been used or not. The main difference in my eyes is that when the numbers are used, the person receiving the critisism will know if it's based on facts or not.

Actually, telling someone they're performing badly can in many cases be harassment now. But that aside...

With a personal parser, they'd be getting those numbers. The difference is that you're not satisfied with the game providing them their numbers. You want to take command and be the one giving out your teammates' numbers yourself. That's where it turns into pure selfishness, the part where you are the one to tell them their numbers, or even that you feel you should even know their numbers.

The ones who can actually do something about their numbers ins't you. It's them. So they're the one who should get them. Controlling someone else's game is NOT your job. Your job is to take care of your own character, and see that you are performing well enough. It's up to your teammates to take care of theirs, and their performance.

With a strictly personal parser, you get your numbers and can work on improving your game. Your teammates each get their numbers and can work on improving their game. In a static you can coordinate this and work on your team dynamics to improve how you work together. But nobody gets to take over and appropriate other people's gameplay as their own.