4.11+ DRK Suggestions/Balance Changes from a "Hardcore" Player

[Lyth]

I suppose it depends on your point of view. As a PLD main who didn't run DRK past A2S, you might feel that the balance is a lot better now. Most DRK mains probably feel the opposite. But we're not talking about whether the "balance" is subjectively good for the job you're presently playing. We want to see a variety of strong comps. It keeps the game interesting.

To be honest, I don't really care to debate whether PLD had it worse in HW. Either way, the most glaring problem across both HW and SB is that we can't seem to find a tank balance in which PLD and DRK are simultaneously relevant. The core problem is actually identical, because it was never addressed, only sidestepped.

[Zykor]

I suppose it depends on your point of view ... you might feel that the balance is a lot better now. Most DRK mains probably feel the opposite

This isn't Star Wars where we say Jedis are evil from a point of view. We use data. In terms of points relative to dps score, in creator warrior's were 2.3 points better than drk in terms of dps, and they were 8.6 better than pld (as an average for all bosses). In SB warriors are ranked 1.6 points better than pld, and 4.1 better than drk.

In short, the difference between the two worst tanks in creator was 6.3 in favor of drk, and in SB it is 2.5 in favor of pld. All this can be viewed in the statistics page.

For speed runs in creator, for top 20 fastest kills, there was 0 paladins in A9S, 0 in A10S, 1 in A11S, and 0 in A12S, and 1 in faust.

For speed runs in delta, for top 20 fastest kills, there is 1 dark for O1S, 6 in O2S, 2 in O3S, 7 in exfaust, and 6 in Neo.

EDIT: Being objective is important when wanting people to take you seriously with requests to change your class. "Balance is *far worse* now than in HW" is a false statement with the information available to us.

[Claire_Pendragon]

This isn't Star Wars where we say Jedis are evil from a point of view. We use data. In terms of points relative to dps score, in creator warrior's were 2.3 points better than drk in terms of dps, and they were 8.6 better than pld (as an average for all bosses). In SB warriors are ranked 1.6 points better than pld, and 4.1 better than drk.

In short, the difference between the two worst tanks in creator was 6.3 in favor of drk, and in SB it is 2.5 in favor of pld. All this can be viewed in the statistics page.

For speed runs in creator, for top 20 fastest kills, there was 0 paladins in A9S, 0 in A10S, 1 in A11S, and 0 in A12S, and 1 in faust.

For speed runs in delta, for top 20 fastest kills, there is 1 dark for O1S, 6 in O2S, 2 in O3S, 7 in exfaust, and 6 in Neo.

EDIT: Being objective is important when wanting people to take you seriously with requests to change your class. "Balance is *far worse* now than in HW" is a false statement with the information available to us.

I hit like on ur post, but I also feel there is a slight error in it. (Well, technically not, but more so something else to consider)
The problem with DRK also stems from other tanks not being pushed to their max. (Mainly mitigation, as we now see 2 tanks with raid wide mitigation, that can be ignored, as obviously DRK and WAR were abel to clear just fine before the updates to WAR)
If content was actually tuned to be difficult enough to require the bonus mitigation PLD offers, and now WAR, then DRK wouldnt compete. (DPS or no DPS)

I do agree its not on the same level as HW.

I also agree if Ultimate is roughly on par with neo exdeath, then there just isnt a big enough issue to worry about.

But if its going to actually push us to the maximum potential play, then DRK will be a hindrance, regardless is if its a difference of 1% vs 20% performance difference. (This is a bit harder to explain, so I probably won't, since I know I'll fail.)

As other said, its only for the speed runners.
But once we see A4S DPS checks again in Ultimate, if not worse, even the small DPS difference in DRK will make ppl not want DRKs in their groups. Even for that small % difference. (Its also possible we wont see extreme DPS checks either, and Neo will be the most extreme DPS check we're going to see.)

[Zykor]

...Mainly mitigation, as we now see 2 tanks with raid wide mitigation...

I agree with you fully on everything you said, Claire. It is for this reason dark knights do need assistance. In fact, my DRK and I are currently holding the global #1 spot for pld/drk combined tank dps and still we are having the drk switch to warrior, specifically because a higher dps potential is possible there and now shake it off helping healer DPS out (with potential LB building cheese happening as well).

But if we are going to be honest, there will always be a tank that needs assistance, and the non meta speed kill one will be making posts on the forums.