Thread: 4.11+ DRK Suggestions/Balance Changes from a "Hardcore" Player

Currently, the tank balance is far worse than HW was among the tanks. Specifically between DRKs and PLDs. It feels like it is actually a big step backwards, and not forwards. I'm not here to compare HW and SB though, we're here to talk about the current SB and the current tanks. My opinions will be coming from having done speedruns on both DRK and PLD, and having an awesome WAR co-tank. When pushing for those extra few seconds off your best kill time, you will notice very VERY big differences between the tanks.

Should you take a DRK with either tanks, over PLD + WAR?

1. Does DRK offer any party-wide mitigation AKA party-wide utility?
a. No. Only PLDs and WARs have a party-wide HP shield.

2. Does DRK offer better DPS than either tanks?
a. No. DRK's maximum potential is lower than PLDs and WARs.

3. Does DRK offer better mitigation than either tanks?
a. No. PLDs mitigate a lot better, and WARs can mitigate as much as DRKs.

I'm pretty sure SE can see the statistics for clear rate over the course of 1-4 weeks among the tanks for relevant content. Pretty sure. If there are no changes to be made on or before Ultimate drops, then it will be 100% Square Enix's community managers and staff's fault for not listening to their tank community IF they see a significant drop in the DRK class usage throughout the rest of Stormblood.

Now, I know SE looks at the low end of the spectrum of raiding over higher end. So I've taken that into account for what changes I'm asking for. Hopefully these changes won't disrupt the balance for people who want to just clear vs the speedrunners clearing for the fastest times possible. Though, imo you will only see the biggest difference in class balance at a speedrunning level. Any class, any party comp will be able to clear any content. No class is better than another when trying to meet the minimum DPS and healing checks. If you are just there to clear the fight and get your loot, then don't let any raid leader or anyone tell you that you shouldn't play your favorite class just because it's not the "meta".

DRK Suggestions and Feedback:

1. Plunge or Carve and Spit - Additional Effect: Increased enmity

2. The Blackest Night - Duration: 7s

3. Bloodspiller - Blood Gauge Cost: 40

4. Living Dead - 75% HP restored to remove walking dead, not 100%

5. Reprisal - Lower's target damage dealt by 15%. Recast: 90s. Make this a DRK Exclusive Skill, this would remake DRK's identity back to the debuff tank. Remove Reprisal from WAR and PLD, they already have their party-wide HP shield combo.

6. Dark Passenger - MP Cost: 1200

Summary for the above changes:

1. Plunge or Carve and Spit - This will not make a difference for tanks that sit in tank stance throughout the entire fight, but it will definitely make a huge difference for hardcore players who live on the fine line of aggro.

2. The Blackest Night - I know Sheltron is 10s but only blocks 1 attack while TBN can block multiple, but 5s is pretty ridiculous when majority of boss casts are 5s WITH a ~1s delay of actual damage registering.

3. Bloodspiller - Indirect potency buff, because I know SE cringes when they need to give out potency buffs. Using TBN should be more rewarding than what it is now.

4. Living Dead - One of the many reasons why DRKs aren't taken to raids, it's a burden on most healers. Holmgang and obviously Hallowed Ground are superior to Living Dead by miles currently. Holmgang being that you don't need to completely top off the WAR after Holmgang wears off.

5. Reprisal - Currently, with 2 tanks using reprisal: in a 6 minute fight, you will have a potential of 12 Reprisals in a fight. Giving only DRKs reprisal would mean that you will have a potential of 4 Reprisals in a fight. It is actually a big potential nerf for healers, but this could possibly give DRKs an actual identity/niche. Instead of shielding the entire party, they will be the only tank that can debuff for the entire party.

6. Dark Passenger - Still not sure why this is a DPS loss to use, why use Dark Passenger when you could Dark Arts a Souleater or Bloodspiller for +140 Potency? Circle of Scorn makes this skill looks like a freaking joke.

More Opinions:

There are more changes I'd like to see, but I fear for the balance at the low end side of raiding. If all 3 tanks were to sit in their own tank stance for the entirety of a fight, then DRKs would be the top tank to take. But a good number of tanks do not do this, and I think SE only look at these kind of tanks when trying to balance the tanks. SE should not look at tanks like how they look at DPS, since a tank's skill level is solely determined on how much they use their tank stance. Whether or not that's how they intended tanks to be, that is how most of the community would view tanks to be. It's really a shame that DRK's skill ceiling takes a lot more effort to reach than the other tanks, yet they're not rewarded for it. For now, I'll be sticking to my 2 rotation PLD where I don't need to think as hard about Mana, Gauge, Defensives, or Party Buffs, compared to being on DRK.

Why should I work so hard in mastering a class when there is no reward in the end?

FFXIV is one of the more balanced games in terms of class discrepancy. We are walking a very fine line between being overpowered and being balance. I think these changes walks that line exceptionally without making DRK overpowered, quite unlike many of the changes offered by other players so far. At the top end of the spectrum these changes makes DRK less unwieldy and more rewarding to play while not upsetting the overall balance of the tanks at all spectrum of skill level.

I like your way to balance the skills, but even with that, I will not playing DRK again.
Another issue that I've heard - and that I say - about the DRK is the gameplay. A lot of players find the gameplay boring, I too.

Coming from me who speedrun a bit, yes DRK is not as good as WAR. BUT that only accounts for people who do speedrun, heck, my DRK has better dps than my WAR. The "DRK sucks" does not apply if your WAR sucks ass (like how mine is) or if you don't try to optimize. Before the buff in 4.05, WAR already was the go-to tank VS DRK for Lakshmi and Susano speedruns. There is no point talking when you are just here to spread the disease that DRK is broken, like how people chose to present PLD in HW. PLD was never broken, DRK just outshone PLD in the MT slot.

So yes, DRK is less optimal but it just doesn't matter for most of you. 200 dps extra isn't going to break your bones.

The only few things I would get into is increasing TBN's duration to 6sec, Dark Passenger buffed so it's used or heck even removing it would be fine as it is, the extra enmity is not a problem due to Shirk, Delirium is such a long CD that it would have to be adjusted so that we actually have better sustain in dmg. Or maybe just a flat 5% extra on Darkside would be sufficient, maybe.

Originally Posted by Sarcatica

So yes, DRK is less optimal but it just doesn't matter for most of you. 200 dps extra isn't going to break your bones.

You heavily underestimate how much 200 DPS matters when you're in the top 30 world slot for a fight. 6:18 kill time for O2S puts us at #22, while the #1 slot is 5:58. Do you really think 200 DPS won't matter when you're trying to shave off seconds? A WAR and PLD that optimizes their HP shields would actually give healers a few extra GCDs throughout a fight, not to mention PLD already has heavy mitigation with hallowed and passive blocking. Can DRKs atleast offer anything to the raid? Currently, no. I do agree that PLD was not as bad as people made it out to be in HW. They had hallowed and divine veil, which they atleast offered something to the raid. Which is why I would say that DRKs are at a worse position than PLDs were at HW.

DRK already heavily relies on the BRD+DRG+NIN buffs to even reach consistent numbers of a PLD. It's really annoying how I can walk into O3S for the very first time on my PLD and do the same numbers as my DRK, without any effort. Sure, my group has the meta comp now and I could go back on DRK to get better personal numbers. But speedrunning is about your kill time, not your personal DPS.

Any class changes that affect the speedrunner opinions will usually sway how the rest of the community will view a class, just look at how influenced the community is from guides made by "hardcore" players (more prominently Momo & Xeno).

Originally Posted by akisya

You heavily underestimate how much 200 DPS matters when you're in the top 30 world slot for a fight. 6:18 kill time for O2S puts us at #22, while the #1 slot is 5:58. Do you really think 200 DPS won't matter when you're trying to shave off seconds? A WAR and PLD that optimizes their HP shields would actually give healers a few extra GCDs throughout a fight, not to mention PLD already has heavy mitigation with hallowed and passive blocking. Can DRKs atleast offer anything to the raid? Currently, no. I do agree that PLD was not as bad as people made it out to be in HW. They had hallowed and divine veil, which they atleast offered something to the raid. Which is why I would say that DRKs are at a worse position than PLDs were at HW.

DRK already heavily relies on the BRD+DRG+NIN buffs to even reach consistent numbers of a PLD. It's really annoying how I can walk into O3S for the very first time on my PLD and do the same numbers as my DRK, without any effort. Sure, my group has the meta comp now and I could go back on DRK to get better personal numbers. But speedrunning is about your kill time, not your personal DPS.

Any class changes that affect the speedrunner opinions will usually sway how the rest of the community will view a class, just look at how influenced the community is from guides made by "hardcore" players (more prominently Momo & Xeno).

Let's be honest, how many people here are doing speedrun? That 200 dps won't matter to them. I mained PLD in Gordias and I easily got higher DPS than those DRK mains. So much for "DRK can do more dps than PLD easily", right? PLD and WAR are neck to neck, WAR sometimes gets that lucky crits during their bursts to completely dominate the tank class.

DRK can't even reach PLD's and WAR's number at 97%+, of course that's bad. BUT that's only if you can do 97%+ on those jobs for it to matter.