Results 1 to 10 of 140

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Player
    NoctisUmbra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,546
    Character
    Noctis Umbra
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 50
    I'm pretty sure most people agree the current loot system for Ifrit sucks.

    The problem is, the idea proposed by Akuun also sucks.

    Let's see if what SE implements will suck too, because they're gonna do whatever they already have planned anyway.
    (2)

  2. #2
    Player
    Murugan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,297
    Character
    Murugan Raj
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra View Post
    I'm pretty sure most people agree the current loot system for Ifrit sucks.

    The problem is, the idea proposed by Akuun also sucks.

    Let's see if what SE implements will suck too, because they're gonna do whatever they already have planned anyway.
    What exactly "sucks" about it, that non-endgame players can buy the loot? That has got to be the silliest excuse I have ever heard. So what if they do? How does that affect you? No one requires you to go buy it on the MW, you can get it through content you enjoy and so they can they.

    Why do you have to dictate to everyone how they progress through the game and obtain rewards?

    Furthermore, since you hopefully realize that the majority of best in slot gear is slotted crafted gear anyways then you know that in order to have the best gear in the game you do have to buy it.

    If we had craftable and sellable HNM drops back, then at least people in endgame would have an enjoyable option to make gil.

    As it is right now this is Craft Fantasy XIV, crafting is the best way to get gil and the only way to get the best items (which are all sellable/tradeable/craftable).

    In FFXI I farmed NM and HNM for gil because I don't enjoy crafting, why can't I have that option here? How does it harm you exactly?

    If other people like to craft, or farm sheep in Coerthas, or do any number of things for gil to buy items me and my LS can kill which they can't then why shouldn't we able to translate our hard work into gil by trading those mats or crafted items to them?

    Do you have any argument that isn't built in some absurd sense of elitism or complete misunderstanding of how this game even works?
    (2)
    Last edited by Murugan; 11-15-2011 at 05:55 PM.

  3. #3
    Player
    NoctisUmbra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,546
    Character
    Noctis Umbra
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Murugan View Post
    What exactly "sucks" about it, that non-endgame players can buy the loot? That has got to be the silliest excuse I have ever heard. So what if they do? How does that affect you? No one requires you to go buy it on the MW, you can get it through content you enjoy and so they can they.

    Why do you have to dictate to everyone how they progress through the game and obtain rewards?

    Furthermore, since you hopefully realize that the majority of best in slot gear is slotted crafted gear anyways then you know that in order to have the best gear in the game you do have to buy it.

    If we had craftable and sellable HNM drops back, then at least people in endgame would have an enjoyable option to make gil.

    As it is right now this is Craft Fantasy XIV, crafting is the best way to get gil and the only way to get the best items (which are all sellable/tradeable/craftable).

    In FFXI I farmed NM and HNM for gil because I don't enjoy crafting, why can't I have that option here? How does it harm you exactly?

    If other people like to craft, or farm sheep in Coerthas, or do any number of things for gil to buy items me and my LS can kill which they can't then why shouldn't we able to translate our hard work into gil by trading those mats or crafted items to them?

    Do you have any argument that isn't built in some absurd sense of elitism or complete misunderstanding of how this game even works?
    You've been getting solid arguments against the proposal you are supporting, but you've been blinded by your obviously passionate hate for elitism.

    However, I'll bite.

    Currently, as confirmed by Yoshi-P, the gear hierarchy is as follows:

    Multi-melded crafted gear > U/U Raid/Instance gear > single-melded/unmelded crafted gear.


    As you so clearly put, the way to obtain the best gear in the game already comes through the efforts of gather and craft classes - relying more heavily on the latter. Therefore, to form a balance, there also needs to be gear only obtainable through battle content, and that gear has to be very good in order to drive people to do it.

    Currently, there is at the very least that balance. What Akuun is suggesting destroys this balance and empowers crafting classes even more, while making battle classes essentially into a DoL. Instead of using a pickaxe or a hatchet, we're using tools of war to farm mats for crafters yet again. This, I'm afraid, is no solution at all.

    Would I like to see content that involves dropping of parts to be made into rare gear? Sure! It was great. They can put more open world content that involves killing NMs or such and incapacitating for drops and using those to make green gear. Such gear (see Silver Tricorne) could also be melded and it would be yet another fun form of content.

    The point is, there needs to exist the currently DoW access only rare loot that we have now.

    The issue isn't that DoW do not need crafters to get their Ifrit weapons now - which is what Akuun's idea attempts to tackle. The issue is the double RNG, which we already know is temporary in favor of a new looting system SE is designing.

    Again, you've already said that the best gear comes from crafting. On top of that you are supporting an idea that makes the 2nd best tier of gear come from crafting as well. What this tells me is you are simply expressing your rage over the cards Lady Luck has dealt you, and simply opting for a system where you can have full control over who gets what while desperately trying to justify the validity of the balance of such a system.

    The Ifrit weapons are strong. They are desirable even over double melded weapons for DoW at the moment. Considering the % chance of triple+ melding a weapon with high tier materia, the rarity of these weapons dropping is perfectly sensible.

    The problem is, and always has been, the rage induced by seeing a duplicate you get go to waste when someone in the party could use it. We can all agree on that.
    (4)

  4. #4
    Player
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Grid
    Posts
    982
    Quote Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra View Post
    Heehaww (click blue arrow for details)
    I agree with Noctis, this hits the nail directly on the head... the coffin is closed.

    /thread
    (1)

  5. #5
    Player
    Murugan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,297
    Character
    Murugan Raj
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra View Post
    You've been getting solid arguments against the proposal you are supporting, but you've been blinded by your obviously passionate hate for elitism.

    However, I'll bite.

    Currently, as confirmed by Yoshi-P, the gear hierarchy is as follows:

    Multi-melded crafted gear > U/U Raid/Instance gear > single-melded/unmelded crafted gear.


    As you so clearly put, the way to obtain the best gear in the game already comes through the efforts of gather and craft classes - relying more heavily on the latter. Therefore, to form a balance, there also needs to be gear only obtainable through battle content, and that gear has to be very good in order to drive people to do it.
    Currently, there is at the very least that balance. What Akuun is suggesting destroys this balance and empowers crafting classes even more, while making battle classes essentially into a DoL. Instead of using a pickaxe or a hatchet, we're using tools of war to farm mats for crafters yet again. This, I'm afraid, is no solution at all.
    What? So if items earned in battle content can be used in crafting that content is the same as mining? I'm sorry but that is pretty ridiculous right there.

    Would I like to see content that involves dropping of parts to be made into rare gear? Sure! It was great. They can put more open world content that involves killing NMs or such and incapacitating for drops and using those to make green gear. Such gear (see Silver Tricorne) could also be melded and it would be yet another fun form of content.

    The point is, there needs to exist the currently DoW access only rare loot that we have now.
    So you are okay with it, but you aren't? That is a big departure from your original "it sucks" response. I don't think anyone ever said anything about eliminating unique items completely (though I wouldn't mind that). Why do you stipulate that it has to be open world?

    The issue isn't that DoW do not need crafters to get their Ifrit weapons now - which is what Akuun's idea attempts to tackle. The issue is the double RNG, which we already know is temporary in favor of a new looting system SE is designing.
    Akuun's idea addresses the fact that they are designing battle content with only a few useful items due to the strength of Materia. Being able to meld materia makes any stat gains outside of those stats which cannot be increased by Materia (such as weapon damage, or slots which cannot be affected by specific types of Materia).

    Much of the set pieces from strongholds and some of the Ifrit weapons are severely underpowered compared to crafted drops. This could be balanced better in the future, and I'm personally fine with having some unique drops which have these special or hard to get stats (due to slot limitation). I just don't want drops to be exclusively... exclusive. As it needlessly cuts off an entire aspect of endgame.

    Again, you've already said that the best gear comes from crafting. On top of that you are supporting an idea that makes the 2nd best tier of gear come from crafting as well. What this tells me is you are simply expressing your rage over the cards Lady Luck has dealt you, and simply opting for a system where you can have full control over who gets what while desperately trying to justify the validity of the balance of such a system.
    Right now the best in game items come from stuff like cobalt ignots, and mid level sheep's skin. That is absurd.


    I do feel that the absolute best items in the game should be crafted from endgame drops. Why shouldn't they? It ties all disciples together and represents the most effort for a reward, so therefore it should be the best. Like abjurations once were in FFXI, this system worked and no one has to try that "desperately" to see that.

    The Ifrit weapons are strong. They are desirable even over double melded weapons for DoW at the moment. Considering the % chance of triple+ melding a weapon with high tier materia, the rarity of these weapons dropping is perfectly sensible.
    The rarity was never an issue, nor has anyone in this thread ever said it was.

    The problem is, and always has been, the rage induced by seeing a duplicate you get go to waste when someone in the party could use it. We can all agree on that.
    I do agree with that, but I also think that the whole "spiritbound" or "unique" movement in MMO's was pretty stupid and pointless. It was a ploy by developers to reduce the number of items in circulation force more people to farm content repeatedly, and curb heavy monopolization (which I'll admit I was guilty of as an HNM farmer). Still no sense of accomplishment from content in FFXI which had tradeable items was harmed by those items being tradeable. Monopolization (which was a problem both for sellable and rare/ex gear) was solved through instance options for many of the most heavily camped items. Items are always less rare the longer content has been out, with experience and solid strategies more people can defeat them whether they are unique or tradeable the rarity decreases with time. Making them sellable might cause a few more people to get them after a point where the price is no longer prohibitive, however that is already counterbalanced by the challenge and effort required in getting it which determines its availability as the price drops.
    (1)

  6. #6
    Player
    NoctisUmbra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,546
    Character
    Noctis Umbra
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Murugan View Post
    wall of text
    I had every intention of replying to continue the discussion, but then I realized half of your responses to my post were either without support, or showed complete misunderstanding and/or ignorance of the point I was arriving at.

    Essentially, you haven't said anything that addresses my reasoning behind disagreeing with Akuun's idea. You're welcome to reread my post and try again.
    (2)

  7. #7
    Player
    Murugan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,297
    Character
    Murugan Raj
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra View Post
    I had every intention of replying to continue the discussion, but then I realized half of your responses to my post were either without support, or showed complete misunderstanding and/or ignorance of the point I was arriving at.

    Essentially, you haven't said anything that addresses my reasoning behind disagreeing with Akuun's idea. You're welcome to reread my post and try again.
    Haha right. You still don't seem to grasp that endgame is currently left out completely in best of slot (as the items come from common farming mats and gathering when they could come from endgame mobs), but yet you have reversed your original stance and are okay with having NM drop craftable mats "as long as there are still some unique drops too" but for some strange reason think they should only be open world drops.

    So basically you agreed with me and spat out a bunch of nonsense, maybe my post wouldn't have been such a wall of text if yours hadn't been. You could have simply said "I was wrong for so rudely dismissing Akuun's idea, because I actually agree with you" and saved us both some typing.
    (2)

  8. #8
    Player
    NoctisUmbra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,546
    Character
    Noctis Umbra
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Murugan View Post
    Haha right. You still don't seem to grasp that endgame is currently left out completely in best of slot (as the items come from common farming mats and gathering when they could come from endgame mobs), but yet you have reversed your original stance and are okay with having NM drop craftable mats "as long as there are still some unique drops too" but for some strange reason think they should only be open world drops.

    So basically you agreed with me and spat out a bunch of nonsense, maybe my post wouldn't have been such a wall of text if yours hadn't been. You could have simply said "I was wrong for so rudely dismissing Akuun's idea, because I actually agree with you" and saved us both some typing.
    I find it ironic how you claim it's me that isn't grasping something. Here let me elaborate to help you along.

    I am not against certain unique gear being made off of NM drops and or content drops in any way, so long as they are in the green tier. You know, how we have color coded tiers now. Green being unique and slightly better than crafted gear, yet can still be melded just like crafted gear and unlike blue, U/U gear such as Ifrit's weapons.

    I am against the suggested change to Ifrit's drops because they are powerful enough to exist alongside most multi-melded gear. Allowing for such weapons to be gained through crafting as well empowers crafters too much, while diminishing the rewards attained through battle alone.

    I support both types of content so long as they fit reasonably into the heirarchy of gear. Green would be below Blue, however multi-melded Green would be the best gear in the game.

    Options in content are a good thing. The suggested change to Ifrit, being that Ifrit represents DoW/M - access only loot at this time, attempts to remove an option in favor of another. There is no need as they can coexist.

    Also, I did not make a firm statement that Green crafted gear should be limited to drops from open world only. I simply made a reference back to how it already was namely with Open World NMs. They can come from an instanced event for all I care. So long as there still exists content with direct weapon/armor drops that are U/U and are equivalent in strength to an average multi-melded weapon/armor then all is well.

    Everyone has what they want. Anyone who wants to get everything has to do everything. Plain and simple.
    (2)