Boycotting Dark Knight

[Catsby]

It's disappointing that DRK falls behind the way it does but I would rather see some identity carved into the tanks before balanced is addressed.

[Syrellaris]

Snip

It's honestly sad that Drk falls so short against the other tanks whether it be resource management, DPS, Mitigation, and threat, very unacceptable.

Sorry but what? I can't do anything but fully disagree on this lol. I easily can grab hate from Wars and Paladins, doesn't even take effort. If you're running out of resources to mitigate damage, then you're simply playing it wrong.
No, ofcourse the class can use a few fixes here and there, but it really isn't as bad as you make it out to be.

[Awful]

Snip.

In a raid setting without a Nin meaning Savage content Drk is indeed behind, in Savage you're pushing your DPS to the max by not being in tank stance giving up your threat as if you even DA + Power Slash you lose more DPS than Pld and War if they were to pull as War is the defacto threat beast they can start off in Unchained and use Equilibrium as a buffer if they want to, and Pld has OGCD threat Abilities while MTing.

As for the resource management yes, Drk in raids go into longer fights outside of their 2 min Delirium combo either starving for Mana, Blood, or both, in dungeons it's hardly noticeable as you can spam Blood price and TBN on trash to get tons of resources back, not to mention Soul Survivor you can really only use Soul Survivor in O3S and O4S so that move is null.

In terms of mitigation the other 2 tanks have Drk beat in party wide utility and personal mitigation as well as situational mitigation so there's no point arguing in that.

Read the rest of the forum posts about Drk that have been more than helpful as they go into greater detail, but yes Drk in previous posts and in this discussion the class is indeed behind in every aspect of Pld and War.

Edit: was gonna add that Drk has the lowest Emnity multiplier of the 3 tanks but Chrono beat me to it lol

[Chrono_Rising]

Sorry but what? I can't do anything but fully disagree on this lol. I easily can grab hate from Wars and Paladins, doesn't even take effort. If you're running out of resources to mitigate damage, then you're simply playing it wrong.
No, ofcourse the class can use a few fixes here and there, but it really isn't as bad as you make it out to be.

This isn't really a thread for convincing people of dark knights short comings. There are enough feedback posts, many linked in the OP if you are really interested. But I'll summarize here:

Threat combo
Though Power slash is the highest potency enmity generator by a small margin, the multiplier on that enmity move is the smallest of the three tanks. You need to expend your dps resource to have hate. When trying to hold hate and not use tank stance, dark has no oGCD enmity modifying moves to help maintain enmity, both Warrior and Paladin do as part of their dps rotation. In general I don't try to take hate from my co-tank unless it is planned, so I cannot really comment on this.

Dps
Dark knight played at the same level of skill has the least dps of the three tanks.

Mitigation
Dark Knights have less free resources for mitigation than both paladin and warrior. Furthermore, to have even close to as much you need to expend dps resource to come close.

Dark Knight is active and resource based, and to many feels like a risk/reward tank. You risk your dps resource to try and get that TBN to pop, you risk main tanking even though you have less tools to manage enmity and avoid your enmity combo for as long as possible to put out more dps combos, your ultimate "prevent me from dying" is a risk in that if you aren't healed eventually you die anyway. All these risks, you would think there would be a nice pay off, but at the end of the day you don't get a pay off. You do less dps, mitigate less damage, and after doing so much to maximize everything, you are rewarded with doing less than any other tank in the same position.

[akisya]

Sorry but what? I can't do anything but fully disagree on this lol. I easily can grab hate from Wars and Paladins, doesn't even take effort. If you're running out of resources to mitigate damage, then you're simply playing it wrong.
No, ofcourse the class can use a few fixes here and there, but it really isn't as bad as you make it out to be.

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh what? There should not be any contest in grabbing aggro from another tank in ANY raid scenario, they're called your co-tank for a reason. DRKs currently have the LEAST amount of aggro generation among all the tanks: WARs have onslaught with an enmity modifier and can butchers with minimal DPS loss, PLDs have shield swipe and CoS with enmity modifiers. Tell me what DRK has? If you have ever done O4S, DRK will have one of the most complex and tight timing defensive rotation out of the 3 tanks depending on how you tankswap among the aggro resets.

If you look at the bigger picture, there is no reason to ever take a DRK anymore to any of the raids because both PLD and WAR outclass DRK in every tanking aspect as of now. Can DRKs do more damage than WAR or PLD? No. Can DRKs offer a party wide HP shield? No. Can DRKs maintain aggro against DPS better than WAR or PLD? No. Does DRK offer a good invincibility ability (Living Dead) vs WAR or PLD? No.

[Chrono_Rising]

Just a note, because I'm sure there are more examples of this, but some people already left early on when it was apparent that we were being ignored.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...65#post4402765

Well its official for me. Haven't played in weeks, the class just isn't as fun anymore so I cancelled my subscription and will check back around 4.5x time or maybe the next expansion if things look promising.

[347SPECTRE]

It honestly wouldn't be so bad if we werent being blatantly ignored by the dev team. Is it really that difficult to respond to feedback? Forum posts about DRK have been on the front page, multiple at a time as well, yet we still get no response. Is this seriously their idea of balance; 2 jobs work just fine while the other is 4-man fodder. If that's the case that's some really s#!t balance.

[Crater]

2 jobs work just fine while the other is 4-man fodder.

The funniest thing about it is that it's kind of questionable whether you can still claim that DRK takes home the crown for stupid 4-man dungeons that nobody cares about; the Steel Cyclone buff (that nobody was even really asking for) pretty much gave WAR comparable self-sustain on dungeon pulls, even though WAR already had their massive toolkit of defensive options.

DRK might still edge it out, but the margin on that is so razor-thin that nobody's going to be sitting there being jealous of DRK's Light Party dungeon dominance.

[Syrellaris]

Who said to compete with them? I merely said I have no issues grabbing aggro from them, not that I was competing with them, you just have asshat tanks in PF / DF / AR that sometimes do compete with you. Quite annoying really.

Also, I never said the class doesn't need some love, I said I don't agree on some parts. Yeah the dps is a bit low, but enmity and mana wise we are fine. Blood could use a tweak and grit, should be free/no cooldown.
DRK doesn't need a party wide shield.. Really they don't. We have 3 tanks, each tank should play completely differently in my opinion. We don't need 3 cookie cutter tanks that all do the same thing but with a different flashy animation.

[Crater]

We have 3 tanks, each tank should play completely differently in my opinion. We don't need 3 cookie cutter tanks that all do the same thing but with a different flashy animation.

That's never, ever going to happen. SE likes every class within a given role to be built on the exact same gameplay framework, because it's easier to design, tune, and balance classes that way. They're already barely able to handle tank balance and tuning with three classes that do play extremely similarly, and what we're seeing right now is that SE is actually unable to keep themselves from increasing the imbalances between those three tanks.

It also took them literally more than a year from the time when they publicly said that they knew that Parry was useless (which is to say, they probably were well aware of that fact internally before they ever made a public statement), to the point where they changed it to Tenacity. And that change was literally nothing but copy/pasting the code for Determination, lowering the scaling factor, and then having it do the same thing for lowering incoming damage.

It took them 3-4 months from when they promised to change Shake It Off to the actual implementation of that change, even though the effects are uncomplicated and the balance on the skill is absolutely nonexistent.

SE are extremely slow to implement changes, and can barely manage to make simple changes even if you give them months to make them happen. Asking them to carve out a completely new and unique identity for Dark Knight is not realistic, and should not be used as a deflection to keep them from making the simple changes that could be implemented now to address problems that have been in the game since mere weeks after Stormblood launched, and have been getting worse since then.