Why So Much Rape in Stormblood

[Mahri]

I don't recall Arenvald saying his mother is dead. Did he bring it up? I thought he was merely abandoned by her, or he ran from her after getting the scar on his head.

Being 'fridged' effectively or not would require her to be dead or something of a similar tragedy. Her being alive but hating her son isn't fridging her in any sense of the trope.

It's inflicting something on an out-of-focus female character for the sake of tragedy that primarily affects an in-focus male character.

Yes, it is that trope.

[CosmicKirby]

It's inflicting something on an out-of-focus female character for the sake of tragedy that primarily affects an in-focus male character.

Yes, it is that trope.

I would 'really' hesitate to throw it around here when it's purely for a character's backstory, involving a character who doesn't even have a name, in a piece of media where:

1.) The 3 leaders of the major factions are all female
2.) Half of the NPC leads in the current story are female. the main NPC lead is currently female as well.
3.) The character isn't dead, nor being injured to up the ante in any way. It seems like the only reason you're calling it friding here is because Arenvald is male. Is any male product of rape fridging their mother?

It's a very evocative phrase with a very negative connotation to anyone that knows of it. And using the term in a situation where it isn't particularly the case serves only to devalue it. The term's value lies in how it criticizes objectification of a female character. Arenvald's mom took action here entirely on her own, that's not objectification.

[Mahri]

I would 'really' hesitate to throw it around here

I wouldn't.

It's there.

It should be called out.

This is a critique. It's a very, very fair one. If you don't like the term "fridging", okay. You don't have to like it. It's nothing more than jargon for a storytelling device that is frequently a problem. I'm going to repeat what that problem is, for the sake of total clarity:

It's inflicting something on an out-of-focus female character for the sake of tragedy that primarily affects an in-focus male character.

Please remember that critiques are not condemnations.

[CosmicKirby]

Please remember that critiques are not condemnations.

I don't feel that using evocative jargon with highly negative connotations without nuance or consideration is indicative of critical thinking.

Agree to disagree.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I wouldn't.

It's there.

It should be called out.

This is a critique. It's a very, very fair one. If you don't like the term "fridging", okay. You don't have to like it. It's nothing more than jargon for a storytelling device that is frequently a problem. I'm going to repeat what that problem is, for the sake of total clarity:

You shouldn't use terms you don't understand. "Fridging" more refers to prominent female characters who solely exist to propel a prominent male character's tragic backstory. Hence why the trope ordinates from Gwen Stacy's death as the catalyst for Spiderman. Furthermore, it usually references poor uses of the example not ones more fleshed out but I digress. If you want to "call out" inequality, shall we start with Aymeric being the only male leader? I mean, if everything has to be equal at all times, it goes both ways. FFXIV has routinely placed female characters in highlighted or largely important roles, be it alongside you or in authoritative positions.

Critiques may not be condemnations, but that doesn't mean they can't be disingenuous either.

[Dark-Saviour]

Hence why the trope ordinates from Gwen Stacy's death as the catalyst for Spiderman.

The term itself originates from what happened with Alex DeWitt and Kyle Rayner in the comics, however. The trope was around prior to that, sure, but that's the instance that seems to have caused it to click as a more overt thing.

[BillyKaplan]

"Fridging" more refers to prominent female characters who solely exist to propel a prominent male character's tragic backstory.

And that's not what happened with Arenvald how? If anything it's made worse because his mom's portrayed as not only a victim but also an antagonist in his own personal narrative. It doesn't relate only to prominent women, btw, the term's long since been broadened.

Hence why the trope ordinates from Gwen Stacy's death as the catalyst for Spiderman.

Gwen Stacy is one of the most prominent examples of it, but it's certainly not where the term originates from. Ever wondered why it's actually called "fridging"? Wonder no more.

FFXIV has routinely placed female characters in highlighted or largely important roles, be it alongside you or in authoritative positions.

So because it did some things right we can't call it out on what it did wrong?

1. Minfillia. For the leader of the Scions, it always annoyed me how much a damsel in distress she turned out being. We constantly had to save her. Her most common lines of dialogue was yelping or crying out in pain right before we saved her. And then the story acknowledged how utterly useless she really was and got her completely out of the way, reducing her to something for Thancred to moan about.
2. Moenbryda. If we're already on the subject of fridging. Supposedly someone Yda/Lyse was very close to, but the lady who could care about Moen seems to have gotten over her pretty quickly. Instead, in the long term, all we hear about Moenbryda is from Urianger's perspective. The poor Roe was effectively fridged so that our stoic Elezen will be forced to show emotion and have a pretense of a personal arc.
3. Lyse. Oh lord where to even begin. The transition from Yda to Lyse I'm willing to forgive, but her writing's been the most erratic thing thus far. She moves from being a competent, intelligent leader and fighter, to a clumsy, incompetent klutz all based on what the plot needs her to be regardless of what she's actually capable of. The scene that pissed me off the most was when Papalymo sacrificed himself. Regardless of what you pick, I'd have expected her to run towards Papalymo, and then he'd knock her back, with us if we chose to follow. Instead she's suddenly standing there, static, and needs Thancred to Man Up for all our sakes and drag her away. You can blame shock only so much before you effectively break the character.

FFXIV does a lot of things right when it comes to its portrayal of women. It also does a lot, a LOT of things wrong. And acknowledging one doesn't mean you can't acknowledge the other.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

And that's not what happened with Arenvald how? If anything it's made worse because his mom's portrayed as not only a victim but also an antagonist in his own personal narrative. It doesn't relate only to prominent women, btw, the term's long since been broadened.

Actually, it does. Exception can be made, but the trope typically focuses on prominent characters because supporting or background characters aren't able to be as easily developed. The narrative simply doesn't have time to establish much beyond a foundation for the main characters to respond to. A common example would be crime or police dramas on TV. With only forty-five minutes on average, the writers have to establish the plot and can't focus too heavily on characters who won't be around for more than an episode or two. Arenvald fits into this category. Furthermore, his mother isn't killed off just to propel his backstory. In fact, she doesn't even die. She casts Arenvald aside out of shame, disgust and a myriad of other emotions that better portray her a tragic figure, albeit less sympathetic. Either way, this isn't "fridging."

Gwen Stacy is one of the most prominent examples of it, but it's certainly not where the term originates from. Ever wondered why it's actually called "fridging"? Wonder no more.

Fair enough. I did know it, but forgot. I'm more familiar with Gwen.

1. Minfillia. For the leader of the Scions, it always annoyed me how much a damsel in distress she turned out being. We constantly had to save her. Her most common lines of dialogue was yelping or crying out in pain right before we saved her. And then the story acknowledged how utterly useless she really was and got her completely out of the way, reducing her to something for Thancred to moan about.
2. Moenbryda. If we're already on the subject of fridging. Supposedly someone Yda/Lyse was very close to, but the lady who could care about Moen seems to have gotten over her pretty quickly. Instead, in the long term, all we hear about Moenbryda is from Urianger's perspective. The poor Roe was effectively fridged so that our stoic Elezen will be forced to show emotion and have a pretense of a personal arc.
3. Lyse. Oh lord where to even begin. The transition from Yda to Lyse I'm willing to forgive, but her writing's been the most erratic thing thus far. She moves from being a competent, intelligent leader and fighter, to a clumsy, incompetent klutz all based on what the plot needs her to be regardless of what she's actually capable of. The scene that pissed me off the most was when Papalymo sacrificed himself. Regardless of what you pick, I'd have expected her to run towards Papalymo, and then he'd knock her back, with us if we chose to follow. Instead she's suddenly standing there, static, and needs Thancred to Man Up for all our sakes and drag her away. You can blame shock only so much before you effectively break the character.

FFXIV does a lot of things right when it comes to its portrayal of women. It also does a lot, a LOT of things wrong. And acknowledging one doesn't mean you can't acknowledge the other.

- I have my dislikes towards Minfillia and how she's been written, however she isn't useless by any stretch. In fact, virtually all of political and influence that allows us to progress come from her. She holds considerably sway in that regard, it simply isn't an action oriented role, thus limiting her on screen role in a game where action tends to be the focal point. Minfillia is more a symptom of MMO cliches, namely pointless fetch quests because the writers were too afraid people would grow bored just reading story. While she does fall into a damseled position on occasion, she isn't a fighter but is a key figurehead. It's natural people like the Ascians would target her. Furthermore, her departure isn't an acknowledgement she's useless. She became the vessel for Hydaelyn. Keep in mind, Japanese folklore is heavily routed in spirituality and existing beyond the self. That was likely the intended reference.

- Moenbryda is not an example of fridging. She didn't exist solely to propel Urianger's backstory. Her primary role was to exposit lore regarding the Ascians and to provide us with a MacGuffin. Her death does prompt an emotional response from Unianger, but as noted previously, if we're going to liken that to fridging, it applies to nearly every example of female characters dying and male characters they were close to feeling sad over it. Basically, the trope loses all meaning.

- Have you ever witnessed someone in shock? They freeze. Lyse knows better than anyone Papalymo is essentially killing himself and there is nothing she can do. Being unable to react fits her character especially well because for all her bravado, she is rendered powerless in that moment and knows it. That can have an overwhelming effect on ones psyche hence her failure to respond. Being portrayed aggressive and competent doesn't mean she will always react to every moment in that manner.

I never said otherwise, so please stop presuming. You can criticize however you fancy, that doesn't mean it's an accurate stance nor that female characters are poorly portrayed. It's subjective at best. Personally, I find Thancred to be a rather weak character. Am I now going to claim FFXIV portrays men poorly? How about we look at them as characters and not as genders?

[BillyKaplan]

Personally, I find Thancred to be a rather weak character. Am I now going to claim FFXIV portrays men poorly?

I never said FFXIV portrays women poorly. I literally said quite the opposite Just that like most things, it's mixed

How about we look at them as characters and not as genders?

Because we couldn't, and one may argue shouldn't, detach the social context from how a character is treated when it's so obvious male character absolutely would not be treated in the same way.

[MoroMurasaki]

How about we look at them as characters and not as genders?

Been keeping an eye on this thread for pages now and this is the most necessary sentence I've seen in a long time. All the upvotes.

Because we couldn't, and one may argue shouldn't, detach the social context from how a character is treated when it's so obvious male character absolutely would not be treated in the same way.

You can, many argue you should. This collectivist mindset is incredibly detrimental to any fictional medium including video games.