Black Mage

[SpeckledBurd]

Personally, I feel like none of these actually address the issue. BRD/MCH provide too much damage. saying they need to provide their own piercing debuff changes nothing, and you would STILL bring a bard and a machinist.They are too strong in their current form in terms of both offense AND defense. The same goes for ninja, trick attack needs significant changes, threat tools need to not be an exclusive utility. DRG also provides a lot, it's not on the same level of absurdity of NIN/BRD/MCH but it is very powerful and would still be desired even if ranged physical was very weak. Summoner is now approaching this level of strength as well with the recent buffs. And monk is not very far behind in terms of damage contribution while also being very strong in prog with fists/riddle of earth and mantra.

So we have 4 very strong jobs, and monk which depending on your composition can also be on this higher tier of contribution.

Saying that Fists/Riddle of Earth makes monk more survivable is outright false, it's just by and far the worse way of maintaining a buff in the game, especially when compared to spamming transpose and hitting Enochian to maintain Enochian and your Umbral Hearts. The only time it ever saw use this tier is Exfaust during The Decisive Battle. Plus, it can actively be detrimental, in Shinryu EX you're basically forced to get a vulnerability stack from his charge if you want to keep your stacks. Mantra's value is also extremely questionable, it only effects healing spells rather than abilities when the majority of the healing done is done in rapid bursts with abilities rather than spells.

Saying Monk is even comparable to the contribuation of MCH/BRD/NIN/DRG is also pretty laughable. Monk's damage contribution is relatively low for how weakly Brotherhood buffs the party.

[Sfia]

Saying that Fists/Riddle of Earth makes monk more survivable is outright false

I talked about this ability in the setting of progression, meaning you don't necessarily need to use it for GL refreshing, it's used because its a 20% defensive boost. To say that is "outright false" is grossly underselling one of the strongest parts of monks toolkits and its viability in progression.

Saying Monk is even comparable to the contribuation of MCH/BRD/NIN/DRG is also pretty laughable. Monk's damage contribution is relatively low for how weakly Brotherhood buffs the party.

In an optimized party, monks personal damage is very high, and in the reasonably popular and strong triple melee composition brotherhood is well utilized and you will find you might be surprised when you actually break down how much damage monks are doing.

Mantra's value is also extremely questionable

And this is the point where I feel like we're probably talking about different states of the game. In real progression (while still undergeared in actually difficult content) mantra is invaluable. Because we haven't had difficult content where the tuning is actually challenging in so long you may have a reduced appreciation for anything which increases ehp and hps.


Regardless of all this, this doesn't concern black mages current balance state because no matter which way you shake it we're bottom of the pile.

[Llugen]

Her point stands that it should work with abilities as well as spells, though. I think she means that things like Assize and Indomitably aren't affected by it, which probably means also Earthly Star.