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  1. #31
    Player Theodric's Avatar
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    Sep 2013
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    10,051
    Character
    Matthieu Desrosiers
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 90
    Let's keep it constructive.

    I believe that the development team mean well. PvP obviously isn't their highest priority - nor should it be - and there are a lot of issues with it that should have been tackled by now that have yet to be properly addressed. With that said, though, this is a Japanese game. Which means that any feedback given will have to be translated into Japanese and handed to the development team. We can only speculate but it's possible there's issues with translating feedback and that messages given/received lack the nuance they had originally. I believe the community team in charge of browsing the forums is also rather small and very, very strained. It's not just the PvP board that feels neglected.
    (2)

  2. #32
    Player
    ThirdChild_ZKI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    3,229
    Character
    Lace Valeria
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodric View Post
    Let's keep it constructive.

    I believe that the development team mean well. PvP obviously isn't their highest priority - nor should it be
    Let me stop you right there.

    This type of thinking needs to stop. PvP is part of this game, and has been for a long time. There is no reason it shouldn't hold as much importance as anything else, lest they literally be admitting that PvP isn't considered important, which would be a huge step back with a community that is already all-too-often at odds with SE, or outright upset and disappointed. PvP is every bit a part of engame, and now part of the leveling experience. It, and the player community that has formed around it, deserves proper support and active community representation. And more than just contrived streams every so often. . .
    (1)

  3. #33
    Player
    Stormfur's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    The World of Darkness
    Posts
    2,799
    Character
    Hex Pathcrosser
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 72
    I think they just look at the data and not the issues behind it.

    *institutes PVP chat ban*
    *institutes GARO around the same time*
    *Data shows more players PVPing*
    "Ah! It must be the chat ban!"

    *Make PVP give XP*
    *Data shows an increase in players playing shatter*
    "Ah, people must like hitting objectives more than hitting other players!"
    *Releases Rival Wings*

    I do a LOT of data analysis on a daily basis. So I can't really fault them from looking at it and drawing conclusions based on it. But using that SOLELY as an influence in the direction the game heads is neglecting all of the other things that contribute to it.

    We have to realize too, the playerbase that actively participates in PVP *and* in the forums is probably a fraction of a percentage -- albeit a very vocal one. After years and years of top 1% players wanting something more hardcore - FINALLY they get it with Ultimate Coil.

    I guess all we can do is keep trudging on? The night is darkest just before dawn, and all that stuff....
    (0)

  4. #34
    Player
    Gravton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    377
    Character
    Gravton Pentest
    World
    Diabolos
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodric View Post
    I believe that the development team mean well. PvP obviously isn't their highest priority - nor should it be - and there are a lot of issues with it that should have been tackled by now that have yet to be properly addressed. With that said, though, this is a Japanese game.
    E-sports (and pvp) is hugely popular on the Asian continent and S/E is trying to get into that market. PvP is or at least is going to be a high priority for them. Also, didn't yoshi say that they have their own pvp department that focuses only on pvp? So I don't understand the statement that it shouldn't be their priority if they have a team dedicated to it.
    (0)

  5. #35
    Player
    Krolja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    130
    Character
    Krolja Ajor
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormfur View Post

    *Make PVP give XP*
    *Data shows an increase in players playing shatter*
    I would guess a LOT of the early data come from Early Access where the instance servers were on fire from everyone trying to do the MSQ and couldn't. I ended up leveling my Drg to nearly 67 before I was able to get the MSQ stuff out of the way, and it was strictly through PvP because that was my only option. In any case, Shatter is now a festering pool of bots and afkers because the exp is free and we all know that SE doesn't ban PvP offenders. It's a win/win for anyone looking to level without actually playing the game.

    Shatter is also the only PvP Frontline that pops regularly. I would LOVE to play anything but Shatter at this point. Seize and Secure are soooo much more fun, in my opinion.
    (0)

  6. #36
    Player Theodric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    10,051
    Character
    Matthieu Desrosiers
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 90
    It wasn't my intention to suggestion that PvP is not important. Yet it is very unlikely that it is ever going to be as important in the eyes of the development team when compared to the PvE side of the game. There's been five competitive seasons so far and every single one has been plagued by win trading. I hope that changes, I do, yet for all the talk of turning PvP into an 'e-sport' those who do value PvP are forced to contend with bots in the 24/72 man game modes and a lack of a functional chat in 8 vs 8/4 vs 4.
    (2)

  7. #37
    Player
    loreleidiangelo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    1,731
    Character
    Lorelei Diangelo
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 74
    Quote Originally Posted by Kisama View Post
    Just throwing this out there- This game has a shit dev team and has absolutely no idea what they are doing with pvp. This has been proven time and time again over the last year.
    I don't agree that the dev team is shit, but I do agree 100% that they have no idea what they're doing with PVP. Awful balance changes, a chat ban in the only serious meaningful PVP mode and a sweeping controversial skill prune in the last year - all targeted at fair-weather players who will never queue up again if the carrots dangled in front of their faces were to be yanked up.

    Very sad to witness from a former PVPer who used to do hours of primetime PVP on Primal.
    (3)

  8. #38
    Player
    Stormfur's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    The World of Darkness
    Posts
    2,799
    Character
    Hex Pathcrosser
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 72
    And just today after all the housing threads, we finally got a reply from the Master himself!

    PVP feels like the red-headed stepchild sometimes
    (0)

  9. #39
    Player
    ThirdChild_ZKI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    3,229
    Character
    Lace Valeria
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 80
    The irony of that wasn't lost on me, but this would be the part where someone chimes in and notes how housing is a "bigger" problem and such.

    It is, but it isn't. And to see that there'd still been no response from even a rep after all this time is all the answer I need. I made it clear that a more proactive approach to communicating with the community and making note of their input on matters before making sweeping or surprise changes is the better approach. Yet we've come to this point.

    They want to continue attempting to appeal to a new, fairweather PvP community, and not the ones who stuck with it all along, for all the good and bad of it, and at the expense of completely alienating and losing that dedicated community. Fine. Let's see how that goes.
    (0)

  10. #40
    Player
    Geryth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    339
    Character
    Geryth Drayfore
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI View Post
    The irony of that wasn't lost on me, but this would be the part where someone chimes in and notes how housing is a "bigger" problem and such.

    It is, but it isn't. And to see that there'd still been no response from even a rep after all this time is all the answer I need. I made it clear that a more proactive approach to communicating with the community and making note of their input on matters before making sweeping or surprise changes is the better approach. Yet we've come to this point.

    They want to continue attempting to appeal to a new, fairweather PvP community, and not the ones who stuck with it all along, for all the good and bad of it, and at the expense of completely alienating and losing that dedicated community. Fine. Let's see how that goes.
    It's all business and they put their resources and time into what makes money. Housing is 100% more important to them than PvP. We can make all the philosophical arguments we want about how PvP deserves just as much time and design and input, especially about how it's a chicken and egg problem (Players won't pay for this game to PvP until PvP is in a good place!) but it's wasted effort.

    I've been in a sinking ship before. Riot Games is dead to me because of The Crystal Scar (Dominion). I freakin loved that mode. I wanted ranked so badly. An employee made an infamous remark about how ranked was all ready to go and they wanted the mode to mature before they "flipped the switch".

    While waiting for them to turn on Ranked Dominion months turned into years. Balance issues went unaddressed or were otherwise extremely slow to get fixed. Communication between the Dominion community and the DEVs were sparse, vague, and one-sided. Excellent suggestions were ignored. After waiting 2.5 or 3 years I gave up and quit League of Legends for good in the only way I could protest that neglect that I could - by not giving them any money. Every now and then I would check in and see what the current state of things were. You know what eventually happened? They effing gave up and discontinued the entire game mode.

    While I don't think PvP is going to get nixed like that, I see the exact same patterns happening here. It really doesn't bode well for people who are PvP focused.
    (1)

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