Oh Square Enix… (A Heartfelt Open Letter To The Developers…)

[aleph_null]

They need to wait for a few more patches for a bigger sample size before deriving any conclusion from their statistical data. /s

[TheCount]

I have no idea what's with their seeming hatred for the DRK. I seem to remember before the expansion released they ALSO ignored the Dark Knight in showing them off, they showed new warrior stuff, they showed that they were doing some wicked cool things with the Paladin, and then DRK was the only tank they didn't show off at all. At best we got like some weird screenshot later that didn't say much of anything it was just showing the animation of bloodspiller (poorly)

[Lambdafish]

I wouldn't be surprised if this neglect is intentional to sow these seeds of desire for change. Just so they can unleash a patch or expansion where "DRK IS FIXED" just like PLD went through in HW to SB when they could've done some simple changes way, way earlier..

Gotta make some hype to sell their next patch/expansion right?

Take your time foil hat off, the reason that PLD required an expansion to fix was because that fix came in the form of being able to block magic damage, and for the devs to redesign the WAR meta (i.e. overhaul all three tanks). At the end of HW, PLD was a vast improvement from where it was at the beginning, it just needed the expansion worthy changes for the community to change their perception

[MagiusNecros]

So basically since they decided to fuck DRK in 4.0 we have to wait over a year for them to make up for their poor design decisions in 5.0? What a privilege.

[347SPECTRE]

So basically since they decided to fuck DRK in 4.0 we have to wait over a year for them to make up for their poor design decisions in 5.0? What a privilege.

2 years**
/10char

[Ryahask]

The tanks are sooooo close tbh. This is nothing like HW. DRKs aren't entirely irrelevant but they are definitely weaker than the other two in nearly every way. The difference being they're aren't quite as weak as the difference between PLD and WAR/DRK for HW....but it's getting there at this rate.

I never understand this claim. The distinction in HW wasn't nearly as pronounced as it is now. You would never consider taking 2 of a single tank in HW, but in SB it's a genuinely appealing prospect. This will probably change with the patch, but even at that point, there will still be a huge gap between the tanks. In HW the chosen tanks for a fight changed based on the fight. PLD/DRK competed for a slot, but each had viability depending on the fight.Currently, even after tweaks and balancing, two of the tanks have to justify their existence compared to PLD. Depending on the fight it can genuinely be hard to come up with a compelling reason not to simply bring 2 PLDs, this is especially true when you aren't looking at hardcore progression. I expect the patch will change that, but not in a positive way. DRK has no viability compared to the other two tanks when WAR gets a party-wide shield on a 90s CD.

Both during HW and since people have loved to deflate the value PLD had to offer in HW. Decrying how horrible it was, that PLDs were unusable. This is simply untrue. HW featured a period where each tank had a specialty. They weren't always prominently featured and PLD definitely lagged behind the other two, but both PLD & DRK had situational value. The only constant in a group was WAR due to being such a superior OT. The state of tank balance currently is far worse. PLD isn't guaranteed a slot due to being better at a single niche, it's guaranteed a slot because it's virtually the best at everything. Theoretically, WAR has higher uptime on CDs, but that doesn't account for significant lost damage to maintain IB. None can compete with the sheer weight of utility and support PLD has to offer, that was even true during HW, but it's only been inflated further. It also has a forgiving rotation which is reliable during difficult phases in any fight. PLD is simply better. Speaking about balance before this patch, so before WAR receives reworked Shake it Off: if not for the LB limitation the only skill in the tank roster that could currently even make you consider bringing anything other than 2 PLDs is Darkest Night. In HW, had there been no LB limitation you likely wouldn't see 2 WARs.

None of this is a commentary on PLD needing any adjustments. The problem is the same that occurred with WAR in HW. They're not overtuned, their design is incredible. They're fun to play, provide good value without offering too much as a tank, and every facet of their kit works in harmony. PLD was handled amazingly, while WAR and DRK were handled in a baffling manner. I cannot think of a single feature that was worth the loss of both DRK & WAR's unique identities from HW to SB. Some of the loss was due to increased homogenization, but most of it was due to poor design choices. Tanks in SB aren't in a good state, in fact it's probably worse than it's been since the release of HW. Yes, the release was awful, but SB's tank, frankly job balance as a whole is awful. I was personally hopeful that 4.1 would address this in a healthy manner moving forward for the rest of 4.xx, but instead they are offering a bandaid patch to WAR which may prove so considerably powerful as to merit being immediately nerfed. In the meantime WAR is going to elbow DRK completely out of the picture due to a lack of attention there, and create an even worse situation for them than existed for PLD in HW.

[Deceptus]

P.S. -to my fellow players of FFXIV, let this thread be ever-living proof that “LOL wait for the patch notes.” is not and never will be a valid statement in any discussion of PvE balance.

QFT. 4.0 SCH and SMN feel your pain as are Monks currently. We stand with our Dark Brethren.

Never forget that an extra Tank or Heal wasn't put into Stormblood so that they could "Balance the tanks and heals they currently had". And they royally messed that up. SCH was in the toilet, AST was middling (and could shield better and cheaper than SCH instantly), while WHM reigned king. On the tank side, PLD was king and DRK / WAR were lagging behind.

[Ekimmak]

I can clear DRK in endgame content as far as I can clear WAR. So it's not unplayable.

But it's not enjoyable either, with no clear direction in mind for what you're supposed to spend your time doing, and a lot less engaging gameplay. I mean, I expect a tank to have a less complex job due to having to memorise every part of the boss' rotation, but it just doesn't feel like DRK is aiming for anything, just wildly swinging their sword around.

[Drtoxicmedica]

To be honest that's my main issue with dark. War has IR/zerk pld has Holy Spirit spam/ fight or flight. While dark has spam dark arts on whatever you want/ can that does damage and bam your doing most of the optimization you can on your own

[FallenWings]

Take your time foil hat off, the reason that PLD required an expansion to fix was because that fix came in the form of being able to block magic damage, and for the devs to redesign the WAR meta (i.e. overhaul all three tanks). At the end of HW, PLD was a vast improvement from where it was at the beginning, it just needed the expansion worthy changes for the community to change their perception

I can't imagine why it would take a whole new expansion to adjust some potencies and effects. Completely redesign/add new skills sure? Simple potency adjustments or "This can now also block Magic/Physical Damage" codes I do not imagine to be a big deal. But I'm apparently not SE and with this line of thought, we can expect Dark Mind to be "completely redesigned!" next expansion to *gasp* block physical damage too! GG tank balance fixed.