Class Reform info.

[Lavani]

Abolishing spell tiers, oh no, something wow already did.

[Estellios]

@Physic: It depends on how they split abilities among classes. People with only 1 class should always be weaker than those that have multiples, but if classes are focused enough they should be self-sufficient. Looking at Gladiator now, it needs abilities from 3-4 other classes in order to be able to tank anywhere within the realm of "effectively", which it is supposed to excel at. If the abilities it gets natively allows it to tank without much trouble, it can instead use the other abilities to focus on self-healing, dealing damage, or other utility stuff/personal playstyle stuff, but you would be able to solely do that one function just by having gladiator.

[Sorel]

nearly 40% of your abilities will have to come from another class. If you are missing 10 skill possibilities, you will be gimp, severely so. even more so than now. Im not saying its bad, but it is something to notice.

Did you count traits in you math, or just actions? Traits are skills too.

[Vingtdeux]

Pure speculation, but I believe the 5 available spots left on the skill bar are tied to future cap increase.

Following the same pattern of skills acquired every 4 leves (and considering there won't be additional cross-class skills spots available), that'd mean there's enough room to get to level 70 before reaching 20 skills + 10 cross-class.

They already stated that switching to a job will reduce which cross-class skills you can use or the number of them, so they will prolly fit among the 10 cross-class skills spots available.

[Physic]

Did you count traits in you math, or just actions? Traits are skills too.

traits arent actions, but i will agree they do have uses, and with more them i would assume more use, but yeah to rephrase if 40% of your active abilities HAVE to be from another class, you will be a lot weaker when you dont have them.

Another thought that occured to me, I think they have cross class skills balanced too low. Unless they make every class a lot more versatile on its own low level, only getting 3 cross class abilities will totally gimp soloing on some classes until you get high level, at which point soloing is less required.

Essentially if the point of classes is to be versatile, too much of the versatility is high level, when a large portion of your solo times will be spent went your low level or mid level.

most melee soloing would probable need/want two cross class heals, some protective buffs, and an offensive buff. say a level 15 lancer or archer, has no/poor ways to regain hp and virtually no ways to mitigate it, they rely on oustide class skills for this.

Think how much harder is it going to be to solo without prime conditioning , fleet of foot (this is huge, dodging aoe without it has a lot less options) second wind, cure bloodbath, defender raging strike, blindside featherfoot siphon mp, stygian spikes shock spikes, etc.

at the end of the day for a 50, its not that crazy a difference (for melee who knows whats gonna happen to mages) but for a level 20? 15? yeah they are going to get even worse at soloing, when a lot of people were saying soloing was getting gimped already.

[Physic]

Pure speculation, but I believe the 5 available spots left on the skill bar are tied to future cap increase.

Following the same pattern of skills acquired every 4 leves (and considering there won't be additional cross-class skills spots available), that'd mean there's enough room to get to level 70 before reaching 20 skills + 10 cross-class.

They already stated that switching to a job will reduce which cross-class skills you can use or the number of them, so they will prolly fit among the 10 cross-class skills spots available.

your not counting job which will come before that, also things like throwing items, and the plan on letting you add items to the bar as well. They really arent saving any/much space for new skills even without job abilities, throwing weapon and potions alone would kill 2 more slots. (it is possible that they will make jobs get access to only 5 cross class skills as thier limiter, adding more space to the bar)

[Sorel]

Another thought that occured to me, I think they have cross class skills balanced too low. Unless they make every class a lot more versatile on its own low level, only getting 3 cross class abilities will totally gimp soloing on some classes until you get high level, at which point soloing is less required.

If I may add yet another thought.

At Level 50, the maximum number of cross-class actions you can equip is 10.
At Level 30, a class learns it's 10th action.

Therefore, the bare minimum a Level 50 character should level a secondary class is 30 in order to "mathematically" not be gimp. That doesn't necessarily mean those 10 actions from the secondary class are particularly desirable. It's just the minimum. In essence this creates a sub-class system similar to the sub-job system from FFXI (e.g. CNJ50/THM30). The primary difference being that it allow for more granular sub-classing of actions (sub-actions??), for increased customization.

[Alerith]

Really, the "what if they increase the level cap?" argument is, at this time, completely irrelevant. A level cap increase was not announced in the roadmap for 2.0, which means that such a thing is at LEAST a year and a half way.

In that time, they could add a fourth bar for skills, an item specific skillbar, delete actions, add actions, or any other number of things before even reaching a level cap increase.

[Starlord]

If I may add yet another thought.

At Level 50, the maximum number of cross-class actions you can equip is 10.
At Level 30, a class learns it's 10th action.

Therefore, the bare minimum a Level 50 character should level a secondary class is 30 in order to "mathematically" not be gimp. That doesn't necessarily mean those 10 actions from the secondary class are particularly desirable. It's just the minimum. In essence this creates a sub-class system similar to the sub-job system from FFXI (e.g. CNJ50/THM30). The primary difference being that it allow for more granular sub-classing of actions (sub-actions??), for increased customization.

Another words... they are kinda bringing back subjobs.. in a way..

[Alerith]

Another words... they are kinda bringing back subjobs.. in a way..

One could argue that they've always been in place and that the armory system as a whole has been a system based around reliance on other jobs other than your main.