4.1 - The emptiest patch yet.

[Kaonis]

I'm late to the discussion, but oh well.

Snark aside, I find the OP to be right on pretty much all counts. As others have noted there has been a decline since 2.0 in the abundance of content and more importantly the types of content. While people are being hyperbolic in saying there's no new content, I think what them (and definitely what I would argue) are arguing is that there is no new types of content. It's more and more of the same. This was a big debate that spawned back in HW shortly after release, and lead to me and most people I know quitting for almost the entirety of the 3.X series.

People keep bringing up WoW, but I think the more apt comparison would be FFXI. Two of their expansions really highlight my point, ToAU and WoTG. Each added new systems to the game. ToAU was themed around the mercenary life and added in assault and besieged to reflect this. Each were unique forms of content unlike the previous patches/expansions of the game. They still added in BCNM fights and HNMs as people expected, but there was something new to try. And this only continued as they added patches.

WoTG was themed around war and had the campaign system introduced. Where the new zones were controlled by the beastmen or allied forces. Each zone had a fort to attack or defend to gain control of the area. There were daily and weekly things to do more casually too. You could do something akin to guildleves for crafting, gathering, and other miscellaneous things. In general the feel of content was new and based around the idea of the war and the war effort, directly or indirectly.

The point I am driving at is, HW and SB bring nothing truly new to the game, its more of the same. And these patches and the complaints people bring up reflect this. All the while FFXI, a game developed by the exact same company, pumped out new types of content and developed new systems for their expansions/patch series. Even if they didn't always succeed, it at least felt fresh and they tried something truly new. Rather than that we get the same linear and gated dungeons, the same FATEs, the same scripted trial/"raid" fights. Its no wonder people are complaining, you can only repackage the same content with a new coat of paint before most people get the wiser. And that's something that's going to continually be reflected more and more with the retention issues this game has.

[Rufalus]

The point I am driving at is, HW and SB bring nothing truly new to the game, its more of the same.

Throughout patch series they add many new things, some of it wildly different from any past content. Most of it gets dismissed by this community as not significant enough or bad (diadem, aquapolis, verminion, Feast, WT) while a lot of the feedback is people asking for more of the old stuff "we want more variety in our roulettes" or just complaining without expressing they want. PotD is a rare example of a new content type with generally favorable feedback.

WoTG was themed around war and had the campaign system introduced. Where the new zones were controlled by the beastmen or allied forces. Each zone had a fort to attack or defend to gain control of the area.

Ok so this is something. Personally I've always wanted more to be done with field zones. Slide the ratio of instanced to non-instanced endgame activities back a bit to the open world. Something with meat though, not just occasional hunt mark pops.
Maybe what people want is a revolutionised patch structure, where some major patches don't service any existing content types at all and the entire patch is composed of a brand new type of content? No trials, no raid, no dungeons, no main scenario, etc? Would we be willing to wait twice as long for updates to those things if a large amount of experimental content was wedged in-between? Of course the risk is simultaneously upsetting people who like the old patch structure and people who want something new but didn't like what was offered, "another diadem" debacle.

[MyaValentine]

I'm late to the discussion, but oh well.

I'm starting to believe that people here just seem to be completely ignorant of what is actually coming or atleast choose to be for the sake of victimizing themself and cry out loud "the sky is falling"

- A completely new moba style pvp mode, that isn't just different way to kill eachother but a fully fleshout map with mechanincs asplayer controlled mech and variations of mechs specialized for different situations, tower defense, 24 vs 24. " oh but I don't pvp so this aint new"

- A completely new DESPERATELY needed and required by the hardcore community raid mode, that extends the live of the hardcore community adding a new flavor to the raiding scene and longetivity value to not only the community but the raid scene itself as it's required to clear savage to access ultimate and there's thousands of people still in in V3. And hardcore raiders have a reason to resub for odd numbered patches. "oh but I don't raid so this aint new"

- A completely new SOLO CONTENT to go with NPC into dungeons to lvl upgrade and progress with them ALSO A HIGHLY REQUESTED FEATURED by many of those who wante to do more solo content in the game, followed by rewards emotes that many has also been asking for ages something new that never had before. "oh but I don't like squadron so this aint new"

- How about a new MAP MODE to do with your friends at your own pace and enjoyment to satisfy your gambling bug and further expand the quapolis mode that a lot of people seem to enjoy. "oh but I don't have enough friends so this aint' new"

-Ok, how about an entire new residential area, no only that we remodeled them to allow swimming on each and everyone one of the distric we also updatedto goblets with a really nice roman style bath to increase the aesthetic of the place and allow swimming. "I don't craft so I can afford a house, I purposely choose to be on a overpopulated server so there's no way I can afford to get any of the more than 600 aviable houses and swimimg is useless this is not new"

-Hmmm... we are making this small little nice new feature to play your own music manually for those of you who wants to have fun and interact with the community. "do I look like a social person, NOT NEW"

-Welp how about a completely new zone completely dedicated for your relic weapon (and possibly relic armor) a new ambitious project that we have never done before but due to the scope and size of this new feature we can't have it in time for 4.15 but we it will be ready a couple of month after it for 4.2 "wtf sq you make less and less every expansion, you don't make anything new and now I have to WAIT? wait for something that isn't a reused feature to mindlessly grind old content but something new? f@$%^ this! lamest patch EVER where's my 2 boring dungeons."

also keeping in mind that as any other patch:

-we are getting lots of quality of life changes also some really good UI changes
-Job balances
-Unique gear from dungeons
-dungeons
-probably the most promising 24 man raid written by none other than Yasumi Matsuno as guess creator and it's respective gear.
-An mazing trial (probably my soon to be all favorite)
-hildibran
-beast tribes
-main story
-hairstyles
-mounts
-emotes
-minions

I swear this thread is gold. Anyone who can come up with a straight face saying that this patch is empty and that they are not doing anything new nor the are doing as much calling people white knight is a living example of an spoiled little......

[silentwindfr]

mega long post in page 41

seriously... i love how you ignore the trouble and try to white knight this soo much...

- A completely new moba style pvp mode, that isn't just different way to kill eachother but a fully fleshout map with mechanincs asplayer controlled mech and variations of mechs specialized for different situations, tower defense, 24 vs 24. " oh but I don't pvp so this aint new"

pvp was never the main focus on FF14 and if more of 20% really partake in pvp we are lucky, most people do it a bit more in stormblood only because it allows to level up... indeed is nice to get a new mode more balanced (1v1 faction instead of a 1v1v1) however it's a niche content in FF14.

- A completely new DESPERATELY needed and required by the hardcore community raid mode, that extends the live of the hardcore community adding a new flavor to the raiding scene and longetivity value to not only the community but the raid scene itself as it's required to clear savage to access ultimate and there's thousands of people still in in V3. And hardcore raiders have a reason to resub for odd numbered patches. "oh but I don't raid so this aint new"

this one did make me laughs... the hardcore community get a content every freaking 3 month, extrem savage of binding coil will only be done (and i don't say completed) by a small margin of the community that have already tons of content only dedicated to them... what the hell? why the savage was tuned down a bit, it's probably for allows more player to complete it... create a content that is only done by less of 3 freaking purcent of the community is stupid... many dev have try this in past... wow did try with naxx 60 and they was forced to reuse it in lich king for make people see it. wildstar did try.... they have ended in free to play and loose tons of player by trying to care soo much for the hardcore gamer...
but here a funny fact, the hardcore gamer of the community is only the most visible, not the biggest... do the extrem savage of binding coil is welcome... honestly, i feel it's an error... but at least 3% of the community will have a new thing to do?

- A completely new SOLO CONTENT to go with NPC into dungeons to lvl upgrade and progress with them ALSO A HIGHLY REQUESTED FEATURED by many of those who wante to do more solo content in the game, followed by rewards emotes that many has also been asking for ages something new that never had before. "oh but I don't like squadron so this aint new"

this content is... nice for new player, for old player he have... small to little interest soo far... most of us have already all our jobs 60 means we have nothing to get from squad... and i'm sure some have already every jobs 70 (talking of the combat/magic job). squad was always something wierd, something to take care every 18 hours... and forget after. ihope it will bring something... but do it's what the game was needing really hard? no, solo content is nice, but what the game lack soo bad is content at 4.

- How about a new MAP MODE to do with your friends at your own pace and enjoyment to satisfy your gambling bug and further expand the quapolis mode that a lot of people seem to enjoy. "oh but I don't have enough friends so this aint' new"

don't start me on the map... they are a scam... in my eyes they are the worst content of the game... not enough to have total random loot that often can be junk, they are glorified heavily luck based content, where if you have no chance, your map will not get you into uznair... and even if you are lucky, often you will not even pass the first door... because well luck is bxxxx... why not have make it a challenging content that ask people to be good for be allowed to continue? no, we do a luck based system with barely hard fight. not without forget that get a map is limited at 1 map per person every 18 hours. that... nice... only if you have level up gatherer for get the map... what a large portion community don't even have done it.

-Ok, how about an entire new residential area, no only that we remodeled them to allow swimming on each and everyone one of the distric we also updatedto goblets with a really nice roman style bath to increase the aesthetic of the place and allow swimming. "I don't craft so I can afford a house, I purposely choose to be on a overpopulated server so there's no way I can afford to get any of the more than 600 aviable houses and swimimg is useless this is not new"

you know that some server have very high population, i think even get a house in this new district will be... hard... plus... this district is in the game since the expansion, it was blocked for allows more player to reach it... not as content added in the 4.1... it's something added in the 4.0 that is finally working...great addition... since it's still cost an arm and most of the community will still not get a house. (and i talk of FC mostly)

we talk of emptiness in the patch, not because it don't bring new thing, it's because what it bring, don't will give a true activity for most of the player... amusingly the most interesting part of this patch was ignored by you, the tribes, that give an activity... but even this is limited in the time... if it's like heavensward it will be between 20-30 minutes for finish the quest per day... what we do ask is for a true activity outside raiding... outside pvp... we do ask for content that will give us a reason to play more than a few hours per week... some player will probably do one dungeon and them tribes per day, a few raid for get them loot and not play anymore...

leading to a lack of people around most of the time, impossible to create a community or activity that will tie people together... someone have said it's a massively online game... sadly most player only play with a small group of friend the size changing, but it's often around 10-20 people max... it's not massive.. it's not a mmorpg... people around me are not different than npc i will probably never talk with... because we lack the content to go meet new player... raid are not means for this, pvp is not means for this... this need to work on a content that will not lock us in our group of friend... force us to do stuff together...

i regret the hamlet of the V1... even if it was not that great, it was still forcing player to play together...

here the hardcore gamer will go in the bubble do them content and we will still have a large part of the community that will have no content to play with... strangely deep dungeon did allows me to meet tons of fun and interesting people... it was lacking in many way, but with work, it will have been a content that can rivalize and be an alternative endgame for the game... is not because we will get a content challenging and reward at 4 that raid will become irevelant, it will only offer more choice... and that what we need, more choice..

we need something that will break the format of FF14 offer new possibilty and a true evolution to the game. deep dungeon can if they work on it, be this... they need to work on this asap. but i'm not stupid, i know it will not come soon, it recquire time and work... but for the futur expansion, they need to plan that the content release in the 5.1... is not the relic... it's the content to 4 player. because never the game was more active than when the deep dungeon was added, and that a truth... even diadem and hunt have never meet as much activity.

[Palamouche]

this need to work on a content that will not lock us in our group of friend... force us to do stuff together...

that why i ask content at 4 challenging and rewarding, for force player to try harder, to get skill, to change mentality.

I'm not sure what kind of point you're trying to convey here ? You're asking us to be more open as a community (even changes our mentality) and band together within our activities, yet you're dismissing any attempt at getting out of your comfort zone. (Refers to the second quote, in which you talk about your raiding experience)

In the end it sounds like you just want something that is catered to your small group of friends, which is acceptable but don't try to jump into hoop to get your point across when it is hided behind a simpler truth.

[Voltyblast]

People keep bringing up WoW, but I think the more apt comparison would be FFXI. .

To be honest I think Wow can be easily compared for other reasons as well. I'm clearly a wow fan but it's because it does have some quality, even if it's "the worst mmorpg of all time". But that's beside the point.

Why is wow a worthy comparison beside both being p2p games? In WoW each expansion ACTUALLY did a lot of changes and not just minor tweaks or UI modifications: each class would get totally revamped skill sets, rotations, sometimes even new skill and lose older ones. As someone who played paladin since tbc, they changed so much in the years that they always feel like an entirely new class which isn't a bad thing (and literally the only reason why I bought Stormblood, but it wasn't enough)

But besides the class changes, new skills, new areas and other changes, think about what each expansion brought to us (some of the same features in one expansion also reappears in another, so I'll avoid naming it "twice")

TBC:
10-25 raids (down from 40)
Token system introduced
2 New races (Draenei and Blood elves)
Flying mounts
New Profession: Jewelcrafting.
With Jewelcrafting, armor slots for gems
Heroic Dungeons

WOTLK:
Introduction of Heroic Raids (with 10 man being normal and heroic being 25: it was changed later to have both 10 and 25 a normal and heroic version instead )
Massive PvP Region: Wintergrasp (with a raid boss inside for those who owned the area)
New class: Death Knight (with 3 specs, so it's technically 3 classes in one)
New Profession: Inscription
With Inscription, the introduction of Glyphs (aka, skill modifications
Barbershop
Phasing (I think at least it started here)

Cataclysm
Complete rework of the entire world (new quests, changed areas) and also being able to fly in Azeroth
2 New races (Goblin and Worgen)
New Class/Race Combo (human hunter, gnome priest, Troll Druid, Tauren Paladin, etc)
New Profession: Archaeology
Guild Levelling
Stats rework, with the introduction of the Mastery System (which is different for every spec)
Stat Reforging

MOP:
New Class (Monk, who can fulfill all 3 roles)
New Race (Pandaren)
Simplification of speccs (no more talent trees)
Introduction of Scenarios
Introduction of Challenge Mode (Aka Timed runs)
Pet Battle system (aka what LoV should've been!)
Cross realm areas
Black Market (aka RNG bidding)
Flex Raid (more to that in WoD)

WoD:
HD models for characters (A bit odd, but a nice thing)
Garrison System (It had potential on paper, it was just badly managed)
Cross-Realm Group Finder for all content
Introduction of Mythic Raiding and the changes to raid difficulties (TL;DR: Flex Raids are now easy mode, Heroic are Normal mode and Mythic is Heroic mode)
Proving Grounds for queue random heroics (not the best idea, but could've been expanded)

Legion
Artifact System (essentially relics, but better made and different for each specc. Oh and customizable too!)
New Class: Demon Hunter (with only 2 roles instead of 3)
Class Halls (mini garrisons, but not as intrusive)
Class Campaigns for each class
Wardrobe system (aka what FFXIV should strive for!)
Quests for each profession
Introduction of Mythic Dungeons with a scaling difficulty similar to Diablo 3 Great Rift system. It's challenge mode but with more loot.
Introduction of World Quests (essentially dailies, but they change every X hours and keep the world busy with different - and USEFUL - loot and AP)

As you can see, each Expansion at least tried to bring new stuff to the table and while a lot of the content was practically the same (new raids, new dungeons, new factions), they ALSO changed a lot of stuff and introduced new features to test them out. And I like these changes because even if I don't like them (and some I really didn't), I felt like I was playing an entirely new game! Just now I've replayed Frost Mage after a long pause since WOTLK and it plays NOTHING like before, same for druid or rogue (outlaw instead of combat) and many others.

In ffxiv, what really has changed? We NOW got those major job reworks we desperately needed - which is great, but did we really need to wait for an entire expansion for that? - but what else is different from ARR? Diadem? POTD? LoV?

SB promised to bring "new exciting content" at the cost of fewer dungeons, but so far all I'm seeing is the same old content with a new coat of paint: if they're going to do the same exact content patching like they did HW then I guess I'm drawing the line and move on.

If it was an f2p I could easily skip over this rambling, but I've played f2p with a tenth of the budget this game but with enough content to keep itself busy for enough time.

To sum my point: FFXIV barely seems to implement or change the game and instead brings more of the same. Meanwhile, other MMORPGs try to change and WoW is one big example of how each expansion, is quite literally an entirely new game.

[Remedi]

To sum my point: FFXIV barely seems to implement or change the game and instead brings more of the same. Meanwhile, other MMORPGs try to change and WoW is one big example of how each expansion, is quite literally an entirely new game.

But this is also the exact reasons why the bring back vanilla/BC is getting stronger and stronger though

Take note that I don't care 1 bit for them, however cannot deny their existence

Changing something will make some1 happy and some1 else unhappy, I swear I think SB was really made to convey this message too many themes could be traced to the playerbase