Scholar Feedback

[Tiva]

Honestly if I had to bet its because you\\'ve started to play this game like it\\'s a job more than a hobby.

I do raid. I raid 1 day a week now because even my casual raid group cleared everything in just a few weeks. The rest of the week I hang out with my dog and go hiking after work or level my alt casually. /shrug So I'd have to say you are wrong on that front. I have a full time job already that is very demanding.

Yeah we can get things done and progress, and your desire for less buttons maximizng efficiency of your work vs output reflects that this is a job mentality.

Not only can sch 'get things done and progress' they are still considered the go-to healer for raids for both their healing ability and dps ability. You are acting like sch is the worst healer right now when in reality we are arguably the best. Healers are very balanced right now.. but still sch/ast is the best pair for healing and dps. We saw some initial whm/noct groups but in raiding we still see far more groups running sch over noct because its just overall better. In more casual content, sch still excels. The only reason the number of skills is important to me is because it makes my UI very awkward.

A lot of the stuff I\\'ve been bringing up isn\\'t because I think scholars are weak, but encase they overall design is very strange right now. Most of our abilities aren\\'t working with a common goal inind of furthering our class, they kind of work for the most part in spite of eachother. Especially our cap stones. Hell even asking for excog to be able to be deployed isn\\'t because I think we need it I just don\\'t think it will hurt the game to have it, but having it would go a long way for our ability meshing. That idea that our abilities are designed to work in tandem instead of just being there.

I don't know what doesn't mesh to you about sch. You shield people. You dps. Mechanics eat the shields. You re-shield them, you dps, and if the shield isn't enough you use an instant (lustrate, excog, indom) to heal. And you have other things for emergency healing (CDs, SS, ET, dissipation). Sch doesn't have much hard casting to do these days. And the shielding + free fairy healing has amazing synergy with the focus on dps in this game. You can get a ton of dps out while your shields break or your fairy heals.

Like white mage had a bit of this pretty SB, but got a good boost to it this expansion. Things like heals porcine other stronger heals, casting abilities buds stacks for better abilities goes a long way for making classes feel like their abilities are working together. Astrologian is big on it too, the card system was already big on it, and the fact that SB kind of reinforced no card left unwasted is great, plus their buff extenders working with every BFF in their tool kit is great.

I'm going to try and wade through the typing errors here.... Things like heals producing(?) stronger heals. What do you mean by this? Whm doesn't do this. Casing abilities builds stacks for better abilities? I think i get maybe 1 lilly per encounter on whm. The lilly system is still trash. It's garbage and needs a complete re-work. You are trying to say that whm got some cool new things in the expac, but in reality the playerbase hates those things you are referring and it's a bad system. So I totally disagree. I don't think I cast a single cure or cure 2 spell in all of exdeath or neoexdeath. I can pull up the log. Their idea and design for this system was just bad. We definitely don't want a similar system on sch. Also you are off about Ast as well. No card left "unwasted"? How is that true? most of the cards are still junk and we are still waiting on balance. They made spear a bit more viable... so now you get balance and spear, and the rest of them are extremely niche. Ast cards have the same problem they had before, except now you can do shit with them through Lady/Lord. Even adding that system was SE pseudo-acknowledging that many of the cards are going to the trash bin. I think you might mostly play sch from your character sheet. You may want to play the other healer jobs at 70 to see they have thier own issues. I'm not saying that is a reason not to make changed.. but I think you are basically finding fault in a lot of skills where there isn't much. I will say if you play more casually, a lot of skills on sch are going to be wasted. Sch is really designed for savage and that's where their kit feels really impactful and fun. As far as place in the game and the meta I'd still say whm is in the worst spot with diurnal ast taking so much of their identity. I've posted about this before, but this thread is about sch. I'm basically saying, I think you are trying to find things to complain about on sch. Sch now is really not much different at all from sch in HW. It's just that the other healers are closer in balance now so sch is no longer undisputed king of the entire universe and I think that makes scholar fanatics a bit salty.

[AiharaMizuki]

Honestly if I had to bet its because you\\'ve started to play this game like it\\'s a job more than a hobby

Why resort to such personal attack.

Hell even asking for excog to be able to be deployed isn\\'t because I think we need it I just don\\'t think it will hurt the game to have it, but having it would go a long way for our ability meshing.

It will hurt the game. It will push out one of the other 2 healers completely out. Having an "AoE" heal for 800 potency that you can just deploy and let it trigger where lag does not affect it, just......no.

WHM stuffs

If you're gonna bring up WHMs, do you realize how underwhelming the lily system is? The only "cool" thing they got in SB is Thin Air. Stone IV is just a decent upgrade over Stone III. Plenary Indulgence had to be buffed (Confession mechanic was changed). Divine Benison wastes lilies if you have 2 or 3 lilies saved up. 20% CD reduction on either Tetra, Assize or Asylum when you have 3 lilies is underwhelming.

Even getting up to 3 lilies is a bit iffy with how good healers try to minimize the amount of GCD heals they'll use to push out more dps. SCH's gauge can fill up with just DPSing via Energy Drain or Bane.

AST stuffs

AST still suffers from being RNG-reliant. Spear was buffed, yes but that's 2 cards out of 6 that is desired over the others. Arrow is handy for some classes sure but not all DPS loves getting Arrow, there are even cases of Arrow throwing off CD alignment for DRG (not sure about other DPS classes).

[Miles_Maelstrom]

Ok first off how was that a 'personal attack' I certainly didn't mean it like that, he didn't take it like that, so why did you. If that job thing is an insult to anything it's to MMO's in general. They foster that kind of thing, where you have the same objectives day by day, week by week. Comes with the territory.

Of course the other healers have issues too, but I'm not talking about balance I'm talking aesthetics. White mage has 3 factors that mesh well, regardless of any tuning it needs to make it better in a combat perspective. Lower heals can proc to make you heal next up better (like a pseudo heal combo), they have lillies while yes not great right now is a system to reward certain spell use to access better, that's meshing, and finally they have confession stacks. More healing leading to better healing. With white mages aesthetic being a powerful Healer it makes design sense that they have lots of that.

To be continued

[AiharaMizuki]

snip

Tiva said it best.

I don't know what doesn't mesh to you about sch. You shield people. You dps. Mechanics eat the shields. You re-shield them, you dps, and if the shield isn't enough you use an instant (lustrate, excog, indom) to heal.

The only thing I can agree is that Dissipation needs a rework. Everything else works just fine.

[Miles_Maelstrom]

AST on the other hand is a little less but I can still find good areas of meshing. The cards used to exist in a vacuum, combat wise they are great, but before SB they didn't do much besides juts what they are now they are tied in. The lord and lady addition was great for this. Not only does it give a normally wasted card a purpose, but it ties the cards into your other functions of healing/damage. They also have have abilities th at change purpose based on stance, and even a small healing combo in bene 1 and 2. Then their is the thing I love. Their buff extenders. Two abilities used to extend ast buffs, but unlike scholar they mesh great. They affect everything an ast can put on a player : cards, aspected effects, long cds like synestry. Anything. It's awesome. Proper abilities working together.

To be continued.

[Miles_Maelstrom]

The problem scholar has is we have abilities that dont mesh or even work against it. Dissipate is a big one it goes against a lot of our other abilities. Another that became worse for meshing aesthetics is deployment. It used to be better, and yes I know functionally in combat its the same but not by aesthetics. It used to spread our buffs, we only had two to give. . Now e4e isnt ours and we have a new buff to give and it doesnt deploy. Any new player would be at a complete loss to explain why deploy works with e4e.

We have only a single proc, which is ss into succor. Which I know you guys say you dont use yours a lot but I guarantee more than this proc. Every class but us had a combo or proc off their base skill. Like their first ability to do their job. For healers its out first heal, sch is the only one with psychic not linking to anything. All other dps/tanks have combos or proc that trigger off their first base attack. Its wierd that ours doesnt trigger something for anything.

[Miles_Maelstrom]

Before you say anything I know smn technically only has a reverse proc where the pet can proc to make their base skill better not the other way, still more engaging than nothing.

Anther issue u have with play style is the fae guage. It's completely understandable engaging. Most classes have specific abilities or conditions to build, and usually more engaging uses. The ones that suffer for use is Whiteman as like us they have only one functiont use their guage on

[AiharaMizuki]

snip

We don't need a SMN-like proc. Unlike SMNs, we can't set our Fairies on Sic especially Eos. Fey gauge do not need another use, Fey Union is very good and it is also one of the healing skills SCH can use without having to GCD cast.

Deployed E4E is very overrated. Proccing from physical attacks is really ever gonna happen when it's used on a tank. Not sure if AoE physical hits can proc it but even then it is so far and few in between that having 8 people with E4E on them is not that much better than having it on the MT.

Unlike WHM getting free Cure II or AST getting a guaranteed crit Benefic II, SCHs generally try to minimize the amount of Physick we cast in a fight. Even if we do get a proc from Physick, Adlo is already very good even without any guaranteed effect from a Physick proc. To compensate for that, they would need to nerf Adlo which will hurt SCHs whole "shielding" design. SS into Succor is not good yes but there aren't many situations we actually need SS. Sometimes it is just better to use the Aetherflow charge for an Indom then add in a Succor maybe with Emergency Tactics(i.e Charbydis into double Roar in O1s). But then it becomes a question of SS being underwhelming or not. It's not "meshing" issues, it just fits what SCH is designed for. More shielding, support and DPS by being able to use Pets + OGCD heals.

Healers shouldn't need combos or skill chains because there will be times where you dont get to use the whole combo. If it's a healing chain, what if everyone is already topped off? If it's a DPS chain, what if everyone or the tank takes a big hit? Having healing skills not rely on each other allows for me flexibility and less "cookie-cutter" (you may call that unengaging but i'll just agree to disagree)

[Miles_Maelstrom]

Crap scratch that. I cant edit. The issue with fae guage is it builds too comprehensively and it used on one single skill that has a single function. Every aether ability raises the the fae the same amount. The aether pact might as well be on a CD because any scholar worth anything makes sure to use all their aether stacks by the next aether flow CD. So you are constantly building the guage at a static rate through the fight. The fae guage might as well be on a timer that increases it because they way its set up its not engaging at all.

While the white mage one in combat is suboptimal I find it more engaging you have to go out of your way to use abilities you normally don't want to to build it. And multiple abilities to use it with even if currently suboptimal it is an engaging design for it.

[AiharaMizuki]

While the white mage one in combat is suboptimal I find it more engaging you have to go out of your way to use abilities you normally don't want to to build it. And multiple abilities to use it with even if currently suboptimal it is an engaging design for it.

Exactly, it's suboptimal and all you get is at most 20% CD reduction on one of three skills (or lose all 3 if Benison is used). You don't use Fey Union and just leave it to drain the fey gauge until it's empty, it's suboptimal