4.1 and us healers

[kikix12]

Not enough to make them spammable again but enough that less optimal players won't go OOM after a few casts. Seems a tad too punishing even if SCH is meant to be the "thinking player's healer".

Adloquium, when it does not crit, heals for a total of 600 potency, which is 100 potency less than White Mages Cure II and 50 potency less than Astrologian's Benefic II. Scholars also have no trait that would give extra effect to Adloquium (free cast for Cure II from White Mages or guaranteed critical for Astrologian). More, White Mages get lillies on top of everything. And even MORE...the 300 "healing" in the form of shield can be wasted if the target will not be hit in the next 30sec.

There is absolutely no reason why Adloquium shouldn't cost around the level of Cure II. Succor around the level of Medica, maybe even a bit less, but that'd be a stretch in higher content. Especially since Scholars are worse in mana regeneration now than they were (and the cake goes to White Mage).


As for cooldown reduction, it is a powerful effect. The Spear sucked simply because it had vastly better competition, not to mention, it was an outside reduction. In the time The Spear was active, the person could have all their cooldowns...on cooldown. So it was often wasted. But lillies will be there the whole fight until you actually use them and they will affect the relevant abilities certainly. If you think that 12sec reduction on Assize is irrelevant then clearly you didn't bother to do the math.

In a 10min battle, you would cast normal Assize 10 times. With three lillies, you would "cast" it 12.5 times. That's 3750 potency healing and damage instead of 3000, and 125% mana regeneration instead of 100% mana regeneration. You can cast 25% more spells within the same 10 minutes, just on that. And there is zero reason why you couldn't have three lillies for every cast of Assize, even without having to go bonkers over it. In normal dungeons with normal mobs, there are times when I end up generating six or seven lillies over the span of a minute, just cause the tanks gather multiple hard-hitting mobs. And boss fights offer enough damage to be healed through.

[Jxnibbles]

CDR is not a powerful effect with our current boss patterns.. What..?

You literally plan your cooldowns around a fight which makes the randomness of CDR useless..

Its nice in dungeons but then 6-7 Lilies in the span of a minute in a dungeon.. Wouldn't the 6-7 gcds be better spent since Tetra, Bene, Aslyum, Regen, Holy (Stuns) and maybe a Cure per pull is enough for Dungeons..

[Sebazy]

As above, Spear's problem in raids was that people tend to pick up a very specific cooldown rotation. For example in O4S, you could throw all the cooldown reduction at me that you wanted, I simply wouldn't use it as pretty much everything is set in stone.

As far as changes I'd like to see:

AST: Fix the damn button bloat on cards already.

WHM: Some means to generate Lilies from DPS, a 100% rate from Stone 3 would likely be excessive, but as much as I hate RNG, 30% or so would work well in this case IMO.

SCH: MP values for Adlo and Succor would go a long way, I also still think that Bane's nerf should be reverted for SCH TBH.

[kikix12]

Its nice in dungeons but then 6-7 Lilies in the span of a minute in a dungeon.. Wouldn't the 6-7 gcds be better spent since Tetra, Bene, Aslyum, Regen, Holy (Stuns) and maybe a Cure per pull is enough for Dungeons..

When was the last time you made several random groups through a roulette?! Do you really think that it's possible to make do with that every time?! Not to mention, I myself am not decked out with the "best" gear. Add to that a tank that can get from 100% to 20% in a span of five seconds every so often when the mobs use their burst skills, and no, cooldowns alone will not do anything when the fight takes about a minute or more. And Benediction have a long enough cooldown to not be available more than once each few pulls.

Holy can stun for a total of seven seconds I believe (4, 2 then 1), and the mobs WILL get hits after the second and third cast before you can do anything again. They will also get hits in before the first triggers, even with Swiftcast. It mitigates some damage, but in a greater scope, it will not replace actual healing.


I'm tired of people using premade, greatly overgeared parties as the "basis" for everything that is related to dungeons. The actual game that most people play is not difficult, but it's not nearly as "neat and tidy" as you would make it believe. If I checked the forums before starting the game, and if I had no brain of my own to use, I'd think that I do something terribly wrong, just cause I actually need to use more than Regen on random encounters in dungeons...

As above, Spear's problem in raids was that people tend to pick up a very specific cooldown rotation. For example in O4S, you could throw all the cooldown reduction at me that you wanted, I simply wouldn't use it as pretty much everything is set in stone.

But Spears were random and not guaranteed. Ask yourself this. If all your cooldowns had guaranteed 20% reduction in cooldown all throughout the fight, wouldn't you work your rotation around that?! If you would, then cooldown reduction in the form of lillies is quite beneficial. Lillies are there and you can plan for them after all.

[Jxnibbles]

I am not even that overgeared what my Whm is i312.. You are probably more geared then me..

[kikix12]

I am not even that overgeared what my Whm is i312.. You are probably more geared then me..

My healers are about ilvl290. I'm going to level other classes before I worry about upgrading their gear.

[Terkhev]

Adloquium, when it does not crit, heals for a total of 600 potency, which is 100 potency less than White Mages Cure II and 50 potency less than Astrologian's Benefic II. Scholars also have no trait that would give extra effect to Adloquium (free cast for Cure II from White Mages or guaranteed critical for Astrologian). More, White Mages get lillies on top of everything. And even MORE...the 300 "healing" in the form of shield can be wasted if the target will not be hit in the next 30sec.

But then Adlo can crit and be 900 potency. It's also harder to waste and overheal thanks to half of it staying as shield. With DT it's pretty much 300 potency (Medica) AoE heal. Yeah, the cost right now is stupid, but comparing like this doesn't work. It's different spell on different class (MP management, fairy and other mechanic make it use Adlo for different purposes).

I'm tired of people using premade, greatly overgeared parties as the "basis" for everything that is related to dungeons. The actual game that most people play is not difficult, but it's not nearly as "neat and tidy" as you would make it believe. If I checked the forums before starting the game, and if I had no brain of my own to use, I'd think that I do something terribly wrong, just cause I actually need to use more than Regen on random encounters in dungeons...

Using the opposite extreme isn't the answer. If anything I more often get those "good" groups where I throw one cure for DB at the beginning of the pull and then 1 or 2 Cure II's after initial Holy spam.


OT: I'm also hoping for some changes to lilies. Thing I'd want the most is a change to DB so it either doesn't require those damn flowers or if it has to eat them then at least scale with them so it's not waste to use it on 3 lilies.
Slight nerf to AST shields and SCH MP cost reduction would be great too.

[Riyshn]

Especially since Scholars are worse in mana regeneration now than they were (and the cake goes to White Mage).

This is not actually true. SCH's overall MP economy is a bit crap right now because of the Adlo/Succor/Physick* cost increases, yes, but our actual MP regeneration is higher than it was before even with the Aetherflow nerf to 10%. Lucid and Quicken more than make up the difference - at least at current Piety values; it is possible that later patches will scale our MP pools (and thus Aetherflow's %-based recovery vs Lucid's flat value) up enough that this is no longer true.

*Physick was not actually nerfed, true. However, pre-SB it was an exact clone of Cure (minus the proc) in both potency and MP cost. With SB Cure got a 50p buff, but Physick did not, and they still share the same MP cost.

But then Adlo can crit and be 900 potency.

420Hp/840Sp, technically (after accounting for the crit modifier). Except we have no way to guarantee when that will happen, so it's effectively worthless when working out the value/power of the spell for essentially the same reason the original versions of Lillys/Hyper Lightspeed/Quickened Aetherflow were - because we can never plan around it happening.

[Sebazy]

But Spears were random and not guaranteed. Ask yourself this. If all your cooldowns had guaranteed 20% reduction in cooldown all throughout the fight, wouldn't you work your rotation around that?! If you would, then cooldown reduction in the form of lillies is quite beneficial. Lillies are there and you can plan for them after all.

In the case of the O4S example, sadly not for the most part, the need to align Lucid and Thin Air with each Almagest outweighs the benefits that a 20% reduction there would give, the fight is also pretty awful for lily generation due to how periodic the vast majority of tank damage is. O3S would be better though for sure.

I’d also argue that iLvl 290 is actually rather undergeared at this point. There, little excuse to not be 300+ at this point unless it’s your first level 70 ofc. And getting to 300 is an evening or two’s work at worst.

[kikix12]

But then Adlo can crit and be 900 potency. It's also harder to waste and overheal thanks to half of it staying as shield. With DT it's pretty much 300 potency (Medica) AoE heal. Yeah, the cost right now is stupid, but comparing like this doesn't work. It's different spell on different class (MP management, fairy and other mechanic make it use Adlo for different purposes).

It may be harder to overheal and waste potency, but on the other hand, it's actually possible to go and waste it entirely. Though, more commonly, some part of the shield is going to be wasted, while some used, when used on a non-tank. Shields on AoE are even worse, actually. It's not even close to a 300 potency Medica. First, you can use Deployment Tactics on yourself. Meaning it's harder to position. Second, its radius is measly 2y. Unless that's actually not true, and I'll be honest here, I can't remember either way, then it can't even work to protect a group from an ultimate, unless the group is well coordinated. No random party ever actually grouped up before ultimate, but quite a lot have spread out or run all around like headless chicken (even running from Sacred Soil and Collective Consciousness...). And other than those specific high-damage, guaranteed hits skills of bosses, even weak shields cast on a party will fall off without doing a thing.

The point is that shields are "potential" health. They have literally only two uses over simply healing. First, they are artificial, unhealable extra HP (if the player have full HP). Second, they can prevent instant death if it's based on raw damage that would exceed someone maximum HP. In every other situation, you would not in any way be less effective by casting a pure, blue heal. While AoE hits are pretty common and it's not a bad thing to have a "HP buffer" on demand as a safety, to prevent a big dip in HP instead of having to react to it, wasting some of that shield is just as common.

As such, both healing and shielding have its pros and cons that pretty much negate each other. There is absolutely zero reason to have Scholars shields cost that much more than superior (in raw potency) heals of both other healers. Especially if you compare it to Aspected Benefic (Noctural), which costs 360 mana less, is instant and creates a 500 potency shield (healing for 200). On a class that DOES have a spammable hi-power heal with a guaranteed-critical trigger from the basic heal.

I'm not talking here about raising the scholars "ceiling". I'm talking about raising the scholars "floor". To a point where that "floor" is around the same level as it is for the other healers. Leveling all three to lvl70 I can say easily that I need to actually get more serious on scholars, optimizing my healing more, which is just tiresome when I need to do it all the time. Can I end up passing the same dungeons without any deaths?! I sure can. But it requires more from me than on the other healers for pretty much no real reaason.

A class that requires you to go "all out" at all times is not fun.

(...)but our actual MP regeneration is higher than it was before even with the Aetherflow nerf to 10%. Lucid and Quicken more than make up the difference - at least at current Piety values; it is possible that later patches will scale our MP pools (and thus Aetherflow's %-based recovery vs Lucid's flat value) up enough that this is no longer true.

Current Piety values are crap. With 277 more piety, my Scholars MP pool is just 277MP larger than that of White Mage. That adds up to exactly 12MP regenerated each three seconds more, 1024MP for White Mage VS 1036 for Scholar. That means that, including the 277MP more than my scholar starts with than my White Mage, it would take 380sec to regenerate enough MP for a single Adloquium more. 6.5min long battle for a single heal more...And to get that extra piety, my Scholar loses 150 spell speed and 167 critical hit. Turning piety into a substat was the worst non-class specific thing this entire update brought. The amount should be significantly cranked up or it should not be at the expense of other stats. As it is, my MP at lvl70 with 286ivl with 1203 piety compared to lvl60, 246ilvl with 670 piety increased by ~32%, while the spells cost increased by ~35% for Physick, Broil II and I guess most other, while by ~70% for Adloquium and Succor.

Though I admit that MP regeneration is actually better now, after adding the numbers. Quite significantly.

I’d also argue that iLvl 290 is actually rather undergeared at this point. There, little excuse to not be 300+ at this point unless it’s your first level 70 ofc. And getting to 300 is an evening or two’s work at worst.

It's not undergeared. Rather, it is not overgeared. The excuse is quite simple. I log sporadically, all the while leveling other classes rather than upgrading the ones I have capped.

Sure, I could increase it with stuff from Ala Mhigo easily. Heck. I know someone that would easily make me a full 320ilvl crafted set. But I just see no need for that right now. I'll do it once I actually get the classes I want to lvl70.