Good bye FFXIV tanking..... maybe.....

[aqskerorokero]

I understand op's feeling but I disagree with your method. You said you dictate the speed of the dungeon right? Then why don't do that properly? like me, sometime I feel to pull from the first mob to the last, I will do it. And sometimes I feel to pull 3 by 3 by 3 in small pack, if you pull more for me you tank, simple and clear. Others are unhappy? Then quit; I m been kicked? enjoy your 30 min queue cuz I will be instant queued in another dungeon with hopefully ppl that follow my lead. It's ok if you want to run slow.

[QT_Melon]

Hmm who do u guys even run with cause I do large pulls but I could see ddeath happening pretty swiftly on some of them , People can barely handle the to courel and other six adds in temple of fist. Or Ive seen healers not be able to handle to two apes in the last msq I want to try the full pull but feel as tho it would end in failure. I have done the pull in kugune pull everything to last boss but those adds dont hit that hard

Well you need to be aware of your party makeup. If you have a Bard they definitely can AOE with Mage and Army. Melee should be using their AOE skills as well. As I stated earlier one big key to those pulls is not having Melee waste a level 1 LB on a first boss, unless the DPS is so low on the first boss the healer can't keep up. Save those Ranged LBs for Trash packs. Healers need to have their good heal spells ready for trash packs or at least have some kind of mitigation. A swiftcast Holy on WHM goes a long way along with Presence of Mind.

AST has Celestial Opposition but I know some like to save it for card spam. Usually I like stunning the mobs once the Tank has them all and settled into place it helps with getting your mitigation spells ready and big heals.

What tends to go wrong during big pulls.

Healers that have a stun, not using a stun. Or using things that can speed up heals, Lightspeed/ Presence of Mind...
DPS that do not AOE
Tanks that do not secure aggro on mobs while running to another pack.
Tanks not removing a regen on them before heading off to collect trash packs.
DPS that Kite mobs away instead of running to the tank so they can collect any wild mobs
Tanks that use cooldowns reactively. If you're going to use your big cooldowns you need to have it prepped. That server tick and animation can lead to your death.

[Lynesse]

Tanks that use cooldowns reactively. If you're going to use your big cooldowns you need to have it prepped. That server tick and animation can lead to your death.

This is the biggest challenge my DRK friend faces. I heal for him, and earlier this morning, we wiped a few times on Temple of the Fist because he's having trouble understanding which CDs he needs to use and when.

It seems almost unreasonably hard to do on DRK.

It's like he needs to use Living Dead once the enemies are grouped up, and this creates some seriously low quality-of-life gameplay for us. It's hard for me to keep track of his Living Dead in all the chaos, and the overall margin of error is so narrow.

[D_C]

Going fast and pulling big makes me feel more of a tank than not doing that.
What good are my defenses and skill if I am not to be challenged!?

Nothing makes you feel alive quite like when you are at critical HP.

I wanted ta quote this 'cause I think it inadvertently tags the problem with tankin' in XIV quite handily, no offense ta tha cat. The problem is ... There is no challenge.

The problem ain't pullin' big or askin' ta pull big. The problem is that's tha norm. An' it's tha norm because dungeons be toothless. I dunno if I wanna say it's a problem, per se, that's jest how dungeons be in this game. As other people've said in this thread, the rewards generally wouldn't be worth tha (relative) effort ofherwise.

But, it makes it not fun. Ta me, I wanna stress. I hate ta use WoW as an example 'cause it be tha easiest way ta make people defensive an' dismissive, but it's kinda what happened ta that game. Heroics in BC were a challenge, aye mostly because ye were fightin' against systems an' mechanics. But it made it fun ta try ta make it faster. When ye were speed runnin' Shattered Halls it was 'cause ya (and yer group) knew what ta do. Speedin' through dungeons wasn't the norm because it was a challenge, an not somethin' ya'd do with randoms.

When ya got ta WoTLK, well...That's about tha time tanks became DPS with defensive coldowns. Subtlety was lost an' gameplay became throwin' yer numbers at the enemy numbers an' seein' who's was bigger. When ye were speed runnin Azjol Nerub, it was because ya (and yer group) were breathin'. Speedin' through dungeons became tha norm because it was the path of least resistance, and even randoms handled it just so.

This was tha model XIV copied. I wanna stress again - that's fine. That's what XIV has. And has had. This thread alone shows there're plenty o' people who enjoy that. It ain't new, as someone else said we were doin' it back in Wanderer's Palace. An' it was new then, so it was fun. Now though? Nothin's changed since then. If anythin' the systems support it more now, everyone does more damage, takes less damage an' heals it faster. Monsters aren't more dangerous either, just higher numbers ta throw ours at. Yawn. Move outta one red stuff ya moved outta 'em all.

If numbers are all they can pull, coordination isn't a factor, an' maximizin' DPS is tha highest thing a tank can do ta be a good tank ... Imma just DPS instead. And again, thas fine. That's what this game has. I like dungeons an' I will most certainly keep doin' 'em. As a Black Mage. Or a Ninja. Red Mage if I'm lazy. But not a tank.

[Morrigu]

I guess the bottom line is most of the time I was tanking and pulling to my speed the runs took between 15-20 minutes. When I dps and see the "mass pulls" it still takes between 15-20 minutes. There really is not much time saved give maybe a 1 or 2 minutes, but it goes ether sometimes mine are faster sometimes the speeds are. If we wipe we lose 2-4 minutes.

I quit because I'm tired of being punished for running it at my speed which in most cases is on par with the speed runs.

As far as playing with my FC mates/friends, most have quit because of boredom and lack of new content.

[CCheshire]

I guess the bottom line is most of the time I was tanking and pulling to my speed the runs took between 15-20 minutes. When I dps and see the "mass pulls" it still takes between 15-20 minutes. There really is not much time saved give maybe a 1 or 2 minutes, but it goes ether sometimes mine are faster sometimes the speeds are. If we wipe we lose 2-4 minutes.

I quit because I'm tired of being punished for running it at my speed which in most cases is on par with the speed runs.

As far as playing with my FC mates/friends, most have quit because of boredom and lack of new content.

The endless salt from complete wipes is always entertaining though. You're not alone as none of my game friends play MMO at all and tanking for EXDR is suffering on DRK.

[Elkanah]

I just want to say one thing: you're not forced to pull a lot.

When I'm tank, the first thing I look it's the gear of my heal, to see if he can handle a big pull.
Second thing: my dps. If they are a Nin and a Drg, I don't make a big pull, it's useless. But if I've a Brd or a Blm, then I'll do a big pull.

Sizing up the party is what every good tank should be doing. You don't run and play leeroy jenkins just cause the party does. You look up all current jobs and players, as well as gear to make that determination, aside from just asking "pull big or nah?".

The example of pulling with drg/nin is probably one of the better ones.
But if I have at least one AoE player like SAM RDM SMN BRD MCH BLM, I'll pull a bit more since we can take them out a bit quicker than most other jobs.

Determine the heals gear and size it up in comparison to yours. Is it better? Is it worse? What level is the gear and what dungeon are you in? Is it over? Or under? These factors always matter before you pull. Start with 1 small pull of 3 mobs, see how everyone functions, and adjust to bigger pulls if necessary.

If you see people single targeting mobs and not really pushing dps at 4 mobs+, then switch to shorter amounts of mobs. Pace the dungeon if you need to according to what you have.

[RLofOBFL]

Speed pulls do make things faster. My temple of the fist today was 13 mins long bc the tank pulled everything(tho that did make me uneasy but the healer managed) with a 320 rdm(me) and 330 sam, imagine how fast it'd be if we were in 340.

But honestly idrc if the tank pulls big or not. Just do you.

[MyaValentine]

why are we having another threat about the same topic? Is like every snoflake nowday that think they feel stress because of a game makes a whine threat. I remember when forums where for thoughtful disscussions, feedback, questions and so on, not to whine about why you are too speacial to do the vare minimum. this topic is to me the quivalent of a dps complaining because they dont want to do rotations because they play for fun so you know 1,2,3 all the way.

[QT_Melon]

This is the biggest challenge my DRK friend faces. I heal for him, and earlier this morning, we wiped a few times on Temple of the Fist because he's having trouble understanding which CDs he needs to use and when.

It seems almost unreasonably hard to do on DRK.

It's like he needs to use Living Dead once the enemies are grouped up, and this creates some seriously low quality-of-life gameplay for us. It's hard for me to keep track of his Living Dead in all the chaos, and the overall margin of error is so narrow.

Sounds like you're both having an issue?

Is he using Abyssal Drain? http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/jobguide/darkknight/
Dark Knight has the ability to recover HP on multiple targets and a few others like Sole Survivor, and Blackest Night

You can also take in mitigation skills like Rampart and Convalescence

Dark Knight has been heavily simplified...I can understand people's frustrations and challenge with it in HW...but it's not so bad now?