Why do tanks no use coold downs?

[Tridus]

This is an honest question. I encountered a tank today that refused to use cd's throughout the dungeon and it caused one wipe and required me to focus on healing him instead of contributing to dps.

just why? is there a reason? I mean even when I tried tanking I thought I was supposed to use cds in pulls.

Refused as in didn't, or refused as in actively said they won't do it because they don't want to? One of those is either a newbie or forgetfulness, both of which are things that happen sometimes. The other is... I don't know, because I've never seen that happen.

[winsock]

The way I see it, there are a subset of players that can't be bothered to use cooldowns. Tank cooldowns just (arguably) carry more weight than DPS / Healer cooldowns in most content, so it's more noticeable when they aren't being used.

[Transient_Shadow]

I'll take that bullet.

Ahem.

Tanks don't need cooldowns on Normal Bosses.

Sorry I should have clarified. I'm actually fine with this because bosses are usually easy to heal through. I'm talking about players pulling packs of 3 to 4 and NOT using any cd's. I've had excelent runs where the tank did huge pulls but used cd's and we came out fine, and they use sword stance and again things turned out fine.

What I do have a problem with is players who pull large amounts and then expect the healer to "adjust" while they do nothing to mitigate incoming damage.

[Kabooa]

Like in Bardram's.

Especially Bardram's.

[Mavrias]

Aren't you the person who was complaining about big pulls as a tank?

[Tridus]

Like in Bardram's.

Especially Bardram's.

I tried doing a double pull the first time I tanked Bardams. It went badly. I immediately apologized and said I wouldn't do that again. The groups response was "yep, that happens a lot here."

That place is NASTY if you don't have gear from it. The defense values on tank armor literally go up by hundreds in one dungeon. It's nuts.

[Kabooa]

I tried doing a double pull the first time I tanked Bardams. It went badly. I immediately apologized and said I wouldn't do that again. The groups response was "yep, that happens a lot here."

That place is NASTY if you don't have gear from it. The defense values on tank armor literally go up by hundreds in one dungeon. It's nuts.

It's the first dungeon that breaks the rules of most of HW's 60 dungeons, and even its leveling dungeons.

Firstly, there are -ranged mob packs-. Ranged. Packs. That means while gathering you are constantly being pelted. Even with sprint.

Then you have the Big, Dum Dum Brutes. Unlike previous dungeons, the Big Dum Dum brutes actually feel like a condensed mob pack in health and damage. They hurt, and they take longer to kill. Doma Castle continues this with the Magiteks who are better pulled separately.

And then, you get your mob packs who have mini tankbusters. Those damn stone golems. With both a pummel weapon skill, and a hard hitting Stone spell.

Finally, the Yol is your introduction to rapid 'every 10 second' tankbusters. People point at Charlbert for his more technical demand on healers, and the Yol be like "GONNA JUST !@#% YOU UP FAM, NO MECHANICS ABOUT IT"

It's honestly embarrassing how the Expert Dungeons look in comparison to Bardram's.

I never, ever feel safe when Bardram's pops up.

[kikix12]

One reason why tanks may refuse to use cooldowns is that they consider them the "panic" buttons that healers and even some DPS have. Everyone is fine with the healer holding Tetragramation/Indomitability and Lustrate/Essential Dignity for "oh s***" situations...why the push for cooldowns on tanks?!
And yes, there's Holmgang/Living Dead/Hallowed Ground, but that's just one, super-long cooldown that is a once-in-a-dungeon thing. And stuff goes south more than just once in a dungeon usually. It's even rarer than Benediction, which only few hardcore "Optimal" players use liberally for special pulls...and that's usually in pre-made parties. I mean, if it DOES go south, chances are someone is just not up to par in the first place rather than honest to goodnes random screwup.

Now you may ask why those players don't use them in a pinch either, then?! And this can be answered in a less fortunate way.
Forgetfulness, lack of skill that makes them pop those too late (20% off damage won't save a tank that's at 5% of HP...), a miss-click/button-push, lag/packet loss (yes, my abilities often do NOT go off if I just push them once, so that does happen). Last but not least...that player could have used it earlier under the pressure and it's just on cooldown.


In an "ideal world", every tank will use their cooldowns to increase the pace of going through dungeon. Since it's an "ideal world", people don't make mistakes and panic buttons aren't needed. Every healer will use their cooldowns (Benediction included) to increase their DPS time and decrease mana consumption for even more DPS (those skills don't use MP after all). And DPS will use their cooldowns to quickly burn through the most fearsome foes in a pack while using global for an AoE, or if everyone is equal, they will spread their cooldowns around so that the pack will be killed all at once through the AoE's. But this, nor any other, world is ideal. So long as there is an actual reason beyond "I don't feel like using them. You're the healer, so just heal me through.", it's just something you'll have to accept.

PS: I'm using all three roles, but my primary preference is by far healing (and tanking is the least). So no, I'm not making excuses for myself.

[Taika]

Everyone is fine with the healer holding Tetragramation/Indomitability and Lustrate/Essential Dignity for "oh s***" situations...

Nope they aren't. That's really bad healer play (like not using cooldowns is really bad tank play). You're supposed to utilise your abilities to prevent s*itty situations from happening, not save them for in case they would happen (in which case they might go to waste entirely, or in worst case you're the one causing the s*tty situation).

[Mavrias]

Nope they aren't. That's really bad healer play (like not using cooldowns is really bad tank play). You're supposed to Wgmi your abilities to prevent s*itty situations from happening, not save them for in case they would happen (in which case they might go to waste entirely, or in worst case you're the one causing the s*tty situation).

This is also true. Like Hallowed Ground, you should be planning your usage of things like Lustrate or Tetra or Essential Dignity rather than save them for emergency. Every moment you spend saving it for an emergency is a second wasted towards the next use.