Dear Healers who don't DPS

[Miste]

I mean, they're not perfect analogies in any regard, mainly because we shouldn't be using analogies for something we can objectively measure. We don't really need a layman's comparison because we should all understand the basic functions of the game.

Eh don't look at me, they started on that. I simply attempted to correct it.

Also analogies do help some people understand things...it is why we have analogies in the first place.

If I didn't find it so entertaining to join into this mudpile I'd be long gone ;_;

Don't start getting cheeky now. No reason to insinuate that we are in a mudpile just because we are having a discussion.

[Kabooa]

Don't start getting cheeky. No reason to insinuate that we are in a mudpile just because we are having a discussion.

It's not a mudpile because it's a discussion. It's a mudpile because it's a "Dear X Who Don't-" thread.

[Taika]

You found 4 post and there are probably more that support your post, but this is an thread or discussion with much more different opinions and some of them have an really toxic one towards healers.

I went through 10 pages (on my settings) quickly and found 4 posts from 4 different posters who explicitly mention that expectations aren't and shouldn't be as high for inexperienced healers. There were more posts from the same posters, and there may have been more posts from different posters that didn't discuss this directly. Now can you show me this "toxicity"? Like said before, I believe that if there are these sorts of posts, they are probably (most if not all) directed at healers who are refusing to be helpful to their party when they could. Not "toxic towards healers" in general - in fact many of the posters are active healers themself, or at least have been in the past - or "toxic towards new, inexperienced healers".

An question i always wanted to ask, is how do you see the difference between an "lazy, netflix watching" healer and someone who is an new healer?

I talk to them. I say something like "Hey healer, don't be afraid to do some DPS when none of us are in any danger!" If they answer with throwing some DoTs or DPS spells, I'm super happy. If they say "Sorry I'm not very experienced with this content / job", that's fine. If they say "lol no that's not my job and you don't pay my sub" I'll initiate the vote kick (I will give them another chance though, explaining why it's really useful and part of their job in this game). Of course you can also check their gear and job levels and if they have the Sprout icon, but simply talking to your party members (nicely!) is generally the best way to go if you want to make things better.

[Miste]

It's not a mudpile because it's a discussion. It's a mudpile because it's a "Dear X Who Don't-" thread.

Eh well these kind of threads pop up all the time. Just kinda go with the flow. The title of the thread isn't always the best choice, but it doesn't always reflect everyone who posts in the topic for example either.

[Jollyy5]

I should probably clarify, that I'm not upset at new healers that don't DPS, like Taika, I will offer them advice.

Now, for everyone who likes to wave the "new healer" card around, what I consider a new healer is someone with a green sprout on their name, or someone who picked up a healer later and is sub-level 50-60.

Anywhere past level 50-60, and especially at level 70, you most likely have 40+ hours behind you as a healer, and aren't by any measure "new". (Unless you level boosted, in which case I'd slap you on a wrist before giving you a rundown on how healing in FFXIV works.)

Pushing buttons is NOT giving 70 or 100%. You can literally press one button as an dd all the time and watch netflix. How does this make you better than an healer only healing? He has to at least watch the hp of the tank and react with an healing spell. This whole "but they stay afk, while every dd hits buttons"- argument is just ignorant.

As for your argument, players in Haukke Manor are still low level and very likely new, so I wouldn't be surprised if all players were doing a poor job.

BUT!

They are at least doing something as opposed to nothing.

[Lastelli]

An question i always wanted to ask, is how do you see the difference between an "lazy, netflix watching" healer and someone who is an new healer?

It's very simple. You observe them and if you have some basic knowledge about healing in this game you'll easily understand. If you're still not sure you can check his search info and gear. If that healer has several jobs leveled it's reasonable to assume that he knows how the game works and joined the dungeon as a healer just to play easymode. If he's wearing savage gear...well...

[Tridus]

It's damn easy to be sub-optimal on a DPS class and have it fly under the radar for most people. A samurai can do it with just their basic combos and Iaijutsu, a black mage can do it with just doing a basic Fire/Ice rotation, a Ninja can do it by doing basic weapon combos and a ninjutsu...

It's also pretty easy to be a sub-optimal healer. I see them sometimes on my tank. They appear to have no idea what Regen/Tetra/DB are, never use Assize, and think Medica II is the only AoE heal in the game. If people are still alive, it slides by largely unnoticed by other players.

Of course, nobody is here on the forum going "it's my choice to use Medica II three times in a row instead of Medica II/Medica/PI", because we all know that's clearly a mistake and want to educate the person how to get better outcomes in the same situation.

And yeah, when I'm on my Red or Black Mage? I don't do amazing DPS. But I stay out of bad and don't tend to embarass myself a whole lot, so outside of high end content nobody much cares. If you're putting in an honest effort in DF, that's all 99% of players want.

It's not that I defend '0 derps healers', only that I don't understand why they get -so much hate- compared to the, basically same, performance of the Derps and Turnks.

Because it's a false equivalence. A DPS doing suboptimal things (not using Enochian), a tank doing suboptimal things (staying in tank stance even during an extended burn phase with no incoming damage and no risk of aggro drop), and a healer doing suboptimal things (massive overhealing, overwriting Medica II with 25 seconds left) are equivalent.

There is literally no case, EVER, where someone would defend a tank that Flashes 6 times, pops Rampart, than stands still waiting for aggro to drop before doing anything else. That is the real equivalence to a healer standing around doing nothing 75% of the fight, because that's the tank standing around doing nothing for 75% of the fight. Any tank that tried that would be kicked. If they came to the forum to complain, they'd be told to knock that crap off, because doing damage helps stuff die faster and is thus a good thing.

DPS doing that is so absurd that the very idea of it is laughable, but their closest equivalent is that Red Mage who complained about how they preferred single target spells do they didn't AoE big pulls. You know what the reaction to that was? I can tell you it wasn't "YoshiP says the content doesn't require AoE", despite the fact that it actually doesn't require AoE. You can burn all that stuff down one target a time successfully, and yet nobody considers that to be a defensible practice.

People react to this because nobody's come up with a good explain for why experienced healers deserve a free pass to stand around doing nothing while everyone else is active. When you know no damage is coming (see: O2N), toss some rocks. If you simply refuse to do that, you're actively refusing to contribute to the group when mechanically you are completely capable of doing so.

[Tridus]

An question i always wanted to ask, is how do you see the difference between an "lazy, netflix watching" healer and someone who is an new healer?

Easy. Do they stand idle, and react immediately with overwhelming healing power every time any bar is below 100%? If so, new healer.

That's the one thing all new healers have in common: fear of the bars not being full. Sometimes it's from other games where that is a huge problem, and sometimes its just healing newbies who don't want someone to die on their watch. It's an entirely natural, understandable reaction. A new healer sees someone at 60% with Medica II ticking, and their response is to cast Cure immediately.

It's the experienced healers who can go "oh he's at 60%, Medica II is ticking, so there's no risk of death until after the phase change, I can ignore him."

A netflix healer lets people get lower while being idle because they're distracted. They will then play catch up. Occasionally a newbie has to play catch up as well, but over the course of the entire run it's pretty clear which is which.

[Seredeelfer]

Dear Long Time Players Who Think You're Better Than Me -

You are - I get it. I am trying to improve and yet constantly being called a baddie is demoralizing. That giant sucking sound isn't really me, it's all the fun of healing being pulled into Exdeath's black holes.

[Taika]

Dear Long Time Players Who Think You're Better Than Me -

You are - I get it. I am trying to improve and yet constantly being called a baddie is demoralizing.

Who here is calling you a baddie? If you're trying to improve, you're automatically better than a great amount of healers in this game. And like said many times, in general people have absolutely nothing against new healers who are trying to learn - on the contrary, it's great if you do! We've all been new at some point, and most of us have a lot of room for improvement even if we are pretty experienced. In 99% of content and groups it's the attitude that matters.

I absolutely adore this post:

A DPS doing suboptimal things (not using Enochian), a tank doing suboptimal things (staying in tank stance even during an extended burn phase with no incoming damage and no risk of aggro drop), and a healer doing suboptimal things (massive overhealing, overwriting Medica II with 25 seconds left) are equivalent.

There is literally no case, EVER, where someone would defend a tank that Flashes 6 times, pops Rampart, than stands still waiting for aggro to drop before doing anything else. That is the real equivalence to a healer standing around doing nothing 75% of the fight, because that's the tank standing around doing nothing for 75% of the fight. Any tank that tried that would be kicked. If they came to the forum to complain, they'd be told to knock that crap off, because doing damage helps stuff die faster and is thus a good thing.

DPS doing that is so absurd that the very idea of it is laughable, but their closest equivalent is that Red Mage who complained about how they preferred single target spells do they didn't AoE big pulls. You know what the reaction to that was? I can tell you it wasn't "YoshiP says the content doesn't require AoE", despite the fact that it actually doesn't require AoE. You can burn all that stuff down one target a time successfully, and yet nobody considers that to be a defensible practice.

People react to this because nobody's come up with a good explain for why experienced healers deserve a free pass to stand around doing nothing while everyone else is active. When you know no damage is coming (see: O2N), toss some rocks. If you simply refuse to do that, you're actively refusing to contribute to the group when mechanically you are completely capable of doing so.