Undercutting by 1 gil?

[Bourne_Endeavor]

If you really want that top spot, as far as I'm concerned, you should be prepared to loose far more money then just 1 gil.

I'll be blunt. This is a really dumb mentality. By crashing the market you'll lose several times the amount you would had you simply undercut by 1-10 gil back. I just got into a war with someone over the Ao Dai. We both continuously dropped by a single gil, thus keeping the price in the seven figures. Getting to the top of the list is entirely the point of selling in this game because most people blind buy. In fact, you do realize by crashing the market, you're still jumping to the top. You're just foolishly throwing away gil because you've mad... someone didn't undercut you more?

[LandricFrey]

I undercut by way more than 1 gil. Reason? I don't have the time nor do I want to spend the time camping the boards for the lowest price. What's the point of beating a seller by 1 gil when an hour later, he beats me by a gil and keeps selling and replacing his stock. So my goal is to find the point where he doesn't find it worth to sell the item any longer allowing me to make my sale.

In fact I used to undercut so much I'd lose money. That way all other competition would abandon the item, thus allowing me to gouge to my hearts content. Now I don't really play the market anymore, but hope this gives people insight on why some people do strange things on the MB.

[Vahlnir]

But you're absolutely right, there's not much else to say in this regard. I'm a spitefull prick, and fundamentaly, I cannot find it in me to truly care about maintaining MB prices, since I know for a fact there's far more people then me who feel the same

This is the mentality I think most people have an issue with, myself included. But at least you're being honest...lol I just fail to understand why people wouldn't want to maximize their profits. I get the logic behind huge undercuts, I just disagree with the method.

[Lyrinn]

Here is some perspective from the other side with a little bit of game theory mixed in:

At any given point, the player with the cheapest item is in the most likely position to get the sale, largely due to laziness (people don't want to teleport to the right city and/or don't care about tax) or ignorance (many people don't even know there's a city tax). Suppose you have two players, A and B, undercutting each other but B is either less active or unwilling to update prices as frequently as A. Both players can replace an item immediately after it's sold (you see this in slower markets, namely gear). Because A can keep his price on top almost all the time, A is in position to get all of the sales and therefore 100% of the profits while B gets nothing. From B's perspective, he can't keep up with A in the undercut war, and since B doesn't get any of the money anyways, B has no incentive to preserve A's profits. B's best chance is to drop the price by a large enough margin that a prospective buyer might jump on it thinking it's a good deal. Queue big undercut. Repeat this until price crashes.

It's possible B can make a sale right after a 1 gil cut but depending on the frequency of sales, this can be unlikely if A is a no-lifer sitting in front of the market board checking retainers all day - like many hardcore crafters.

Now, if this big undercut behavior frustrates people as much as this thread indicates, B will also make people leave the markets either in frustration or in search of better opportunities. If B can make A quit, B can reset prices to their original value and hold a monopoly on the market.

This is how we see it. The market board isn't some cooperative game; it's a winner-take-all PvP deathmatch. The one way you can avoid the scenario outlined is to price match, which truly "preserves the health of the market board" by keeping prices static instead of forever falling (even if it's just by 1). Yet, I doubt any of you claiming you're "preserving the health of the market board" really care about that. People undercut for only 1 reason and it's to get the sale. There's no other motive involved.


Note: this argument only works for slow markets, not fast moving ones like materials, leve turn-ins, or whatever, and slow moving markets are the only ones with prices in the millions that allow for huge undercuts like what people are complaining about here.

Edit: Format change because people's reading comprehension is severely lacking.

[Vahlnir]

At any given point, the player with the cheapest itemThe market board isn't some cooperative game; it's a winner-take-all PvP deathmatch. The one way you can avoid the scenario outlined is to price match, which truly "preserves the health of the market board" by keeping prices static instead of forever falling (even if it's just by 1). Yet, I doubt any of you claiming you're "preserving the health of the market board" really care about that. People undercut for only 1 reason and it's to get the sale. There's no other motive involved.

Slow or fast markets, it shouldn't matter. Winning smarter is always better. The MB is arguably more competitive than actual PvP, no doubt. But just like PvP, gotta play smart. Getting the most points is the goal of PvP, and getting the most gil should be the goal of the MB imo.

[ElazulHP]

I'll undercut by 1 gil because I respect my fellow crafters and gatherers. At the end of the day we all want to see a profit so keeping the price as stable as possible is in everyone's best interests who crafts and gathers. Feel free to do it right back at me. I ain't got no problem with it. Business is business. The only person who wins when under cutting by massive amounts are the people who only buy stuff from the MB though. When you have a bunch of people doing massive undercuts you essentially kill an items worth on the MB making it worthless as well.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

It's possible B can make a sale right after a normal update but depending on the frequency of sales, this can be unlikely if A is a no-lifer sitting in front of the market board checking retainers all day - like many hardcore crafters. Now, if this behavior frustrates people as much as this thread indicates, B will also make people leave the markets either in frustration or in search of better opportunities. If B can make A quit, B can reset prices to their original value and hold a monopoly on the market.

The fallacy with this perspective is people often undercut the new price, which is what actually crashes the market. Whenever I don't have time to get into a price war or simply can't be bothered, I just make occasional adjustments and it still sells. Now this doesn't always work, especially if someone floods a market in an attempt to control it, but you can do that right back to them. In the end, no matter what you do, mass undercuts hurts everyone except the buyer. It'll only become worse once they release that stupid phone app that allows price changes without even being logged in.

[Lazaruz]

Here is some perspective from the other side with a little bit of game theory mixed in:

At any given point, the player with the cheapest item is in the most likely position to get the sale, largely due to laziness (people don't want to teleport to the right city and/or don't care about tax) or ignorance (many people don't even know there's a city tax). Suppose you have two players, A and B, undercutting each other but B is either less active or unwilling to update prices as frequently as A. Both players can replace an item immediately after it's sold (you see this in slower markets, namely gear). Because A can keep his price on top almost all the time, A is in position to get all of the sales and therefore 100% of the profits while B gets nothing. From B's perspective, he can't keep up with A in the undercut war, and since B doesn't get any of the money anyways, B has no incentive to preserve A's profits. B's best chance is to drop the price by a large enough margin that a prospective buyer might jump on it thinking it's a good deal. Queue big undercut. Repeat this until price crashes.

It's possible B can make a sale right after a normal update but depending on the frequency of sales, this can be unlikely if A is a no-lifer sitting in front of the market board checking retainers all day - like many hardcore crafters. Now, if this behavior frustrates people as much as this thread indicates, B will also make people leave the markets either in frustration or in search of better opportunities. If B can make A quit, B can reset prices to their original value and hold a monopoly on the market.

This is how we see it. The market board isn't some cooperative game; it's a winner-take-all PvP deathmatch. The one way you can avoid the scenario outlined is to price match, which truly "preserves the health of the market board" by keeping prices static instead of forever falling (even if it's just by 1). Yet, I doubt any of you claiming you're "preserving the health of the market board" really care about that. People undercut for only 1 reason and it's to get the sale. There's no other motive involved.


Note: this argument only works for slow markets, not fast moving ones like materials, leve turn-ins, or whatever, and slow moving markets are the only ones with prices in the millions that allow for huge undercuts like what people are complaining about here.

Thank you! Explained it infinetely better then I ever could with my usual rambling :P
Have a like

[Furiea]

seeing people undercutting my listings by 1 gil is like seeing this thread getting bumped by 1 reply.

[Ksenia]

No, the most annoying thing is getting an item, seeing all the prices are 200k, putting yours up for 200k, and coming back 4 hours later to find the prices have dropped more than 90%.

A better question: What is going on in the heads of all these idiots who put stuff on MB for LESS THAN A VENDOR WOULD HAVE PAID THEM!

For me, this screams RMT tactic. They want to create a climate where they can scare people in to buying Gil with inflated markets but they don't want people to make Gil on the inflated markets so prices crash hard when you call them out. It's a game they play to maintain their presence. The only things that should be selling for huge Gil right now are 1 and 2 star 70 related things and 3 and 4 star 50 and 60. 3 and 4 star 50 and 60 because they are gated behind beast tribe exclusive items that require time stamps to get. 70 stuff because it requires multi million melds to even make, in addition to time gated mats. Everything else is either a part of the RMT or plays in to the RMT climate building. It does frustrate me as well. I'd like to make Gil too, just like everyone else but I don't want to accommodate these parasites and I do lose a lot of time to them.