Boss Autoattack Damage and FFXIV's Tanking Meta

[Kerrath]

I made this suggestion with the intent of making the current DPS-stance tank gameplay the default gameplay for both stances, thus reducing the aggro generation and increasing incoming damage so that our tank duties are still a bit challenging while in tanking stance, unlike how it is right now (tanking stance is basically easy mode).

that's the thing: it is easy mode. it exists to shove low-skill players through content. it's not an optimal play, and the optimal way of playing is harder, but it is an option for lower skill players.

ive been tanking since 2004 and i have seen continuous changes to how tanks are build that have progressively made tanking more and more streamlined, more dull, more dumbed-down so that even the absolute most dense moron can win as a tank.

(more below, apparently there's a 1000 character limit)

[Kerrath]

(post 2, thx se for terrifying character limit)
in 2004, tanks did such low threat that it was standard practice for DPS to intentionally throttle themselves so as to not pull aggro off of the tank. literally you were expected to stop casting until the tank had established enough threat for you to continue dpsing. as a result, if you had ever met a tank for whom you did not have to throttle your dps--a tank who, say, had read through 90 pages of MATLAB graphs and had min-maxed to the absolute edge of optimizing their class--you wanted to marry them.

it was great because back then there were so many weird little ways of optimizing your character that you kinda had to be a math major to really get the most out of your tank.

[Kerrath]

(post 3)
so while tanking in dps stance isn't as challenging as tactically deciding when you can and can't drop into dps stance based on changing damage income, in my mind, it's more challenging than merely going into tank stance, and i cannot imagine SE EVER offering anything more challenging than just cutting out DPS stance and leaving tank stance as it is, because I have seen the tank meta gutted in MMOs in the name of accessibility too many times to have that much hope.

I think that they can totally bring an interesting amount of complexity to the tanks with other means.

Yeah, but do you have any specific examples of how they could do that?

[Canadane]

(more below, apparently there's a 1000 character limit)

Edit you post after making it. No text limit.

[Freyyy]

Yeah, but do you have any specific examples of how they could do that?

Right off the bat, no, I don't, and I'm no game developper. But they could for example reduce the amount of passive mitigation we have and replace it with more active mitigation. Tie it to the specific mechanics of each tank. Mitigating damage should feel as engaging as dealing damage. Same for aggro. They could also make tanks' DPS rotations more complex, harder to optimize. They could do all of that without altering the skill floor too much. What I'd like (and I know I'm not alone) is a higher skill ceiling.
Maybe my suggestions aren't the best way. But again, I'm no game developer, I'm just sharing my opinion.

[Kerrath]

Right off the bat, no, I don't, and I'm no game developper. But they could for example reduce the amount of passive mitigation we have and replace it with more active mitigation. Tie it to the specific mechanics of each tank. Mitigating damage should feel as engaging as dealing damage. Same for aggro. They could also make tanks' DPS rotations more complex, harder to optimize. They could do all of that without altering the skill floor too much. What I'd like (and I know I'm not alone) is a higher skill ceiling.
Maybe my suggestions aren't the best way. But again, I'm no game developer, I'm just sharing my opinion.

well, wow has active mitigation. i'd definitely say that ff14's tank meta has a higher skill ceiling by a LONG shot.

edit for clarification: just for how a tank is played. for all other aspects of the game, wow is the more challenging option.

[Freyyy]

well, wow has active mitigation. i'd definitely say that ff14's tank meta has a higher skill ceiling by a LONG shot.

edit for clarification: just for how a tank is played. for all other aspects of the game, wow is the more challenging option.

Yes I know. I used to play WoW in the past and I played plenty of other MMOs. FF14 is by far the easiest to tank (only speaking about the basic tank duties here, so aggro + mitigation, nothing else).

Edit : About WoW, I'll just add that last time I played it was near the release of Cataclysm, so my experience is quite old old old. I'm pretty sure everything has changed since then.

[Kerrath]

Yes I know. I used to play WoW in the past and I played plenty of other MMOs. FF14 is by far the easiest to tank (only speaking about the basic tank duties here, so aggro + mitigation, nothing else).

Edit : About WoW, I'll just add that last time I played it was near the release of Cataclysm, so my experience is quite old old old. I'm pretty sure everything has changed since then.

mists of pandaria was the expansion where active mitigation as a feature was implemented. in short, all they did was make the tanks squisher and give them 1-3 buffs to maintain that make them less squishy. the problem i had with the system was that the requirement to get maximum benefit from the 1-3 buffs was absolutely minimal (e.g. press shield block once every ~10 seconds)

[MyaValentine]

mists of pandaria was the expansion where active mitigation as a feature was implemented. in short, all they did was make the tanks squisher and give them 1-3 buffs to maintain that make them less squishy. the problem i had with the system was that the requirement to get maximum benefit from the 1-3 buffs was absolutely minimal (e.g. press shield block once every ~10 seconds)

isn't that what ff14 is ?

[Kerrath]

isn't that what ff14 is ?

in ff14 you have the option of going into DPS stance, where you take more damage and do less threat, but are rewarded with more dps. in wow, no such option exists. you just kinda sit there and it doesn't really matter that much what order you press your buttons in because you'll still have aggro anyway.