Boss Autoattack Damage and FFXIV's Tanking Meta

[Kerrath]

You didn't read my post.

yes i did.

you know what I like about tanking in ff14? i like threat management. i like how threat is something to be managed. in other mmos, you can press any button at any time with no thought to management of threat at all and still hold aggro. it's trivial. in ff14, you are rewarded with more dps for dropping your threat-increasing stance. you have to use things like shirk and dps aggro drops. that's fun. maybe i'd like your idea if tank stance gave a 20% increase to threat generated rather than a 500% increase to threat generated.

[Freyyy]

yes i did.

you know what I like about tanking in ff14? i like threat management. i like how threat is something to be managed. in other mmos, you can press any button at any time with no thought to management of threat at all and still hold aggro. it's trivial. in ff14, you are rewarded with more dps for dropping your threat-increasing stance. you have to use things like shirk and dps aggro drops. that's fun. maybe i'd like your idea if tank stance gave a 20% increase to threat generated rather than a 500% increase to threat generated.

This answer just proves that you either didn't read my post, or didn't understand the idea behind it.

[Galgarion]

Aside from inner beast for tankbusters, warriors don't get much value from their tank stance in a single target fight, so staying in defiance seems wasteful. Of course I only play normal content so what works for me might not count for the majors.

[Thoro39]

Another thing that should be added is that *most* bosses stop autoattacking(aka do 0 damage) whenever they are casting mechanics of any kind. This is especially noticeable in fights like Exdeath and O3S.
You can easily observe that after the first spellblade holy mechanic in O3S:
In the timeframe between "After the first spellblade holy mechanic" and "After the first completed game-mechanic", the boss executes just 5~6 autoattacks in a timespan of 40~ seconds while only casting 1 raidaoe, no tankbusters, no adds and otherwise avoidable aoe damage. That's 40 seconds where a tank staying in tankstance is doing very, very little.

And that's just one example of this happening in O3S, I'm sure you could easily find many more similar cases in O3S alone where autoattack damage is just not happening because of casted mechanics.

[bswpayton]

Most tanks don't use CDs in DPS stance to mitigate autos better. They see a vid or learn DPS stance is what you do, but not whats behind it. Their CDs just sit while they pew pew pew. Healers either get behind and the tank dies or wastes CDs healing instead of DPSing. Most of the base tries to emulate top groups, but don't play like top jobs.

Honestly, I'd like to see someone crunch the numbers. Which is better net party DPS effect? 20% increase of Tank in DPS stance with a healer blowing CDs to heal him.

Tank stance kills dps puts u in the thousands making ur healer have to do 1000 dps for some fights which can be hard to pull off

[aleph_null]

Tank stance kills dps puts u in the thousands making ur healer have to do 1000 dps for some fights which can be hard to pull off

Staying in dps stance without mitigating enough damage (including tank busters, cleaves, autos, aoe/mech damage, etc) is just passing on the responsibility to the healers and they have to cater to you. If you want to stay in dps stance then you need to learn how to mitigate well, coordinate mitigation tools and tank swaps as needed, so your healers can still dps comfortably. It's easy to do high dps as a tank by sacrificing healer dps, the difficult thing is to enable both the tanks and the healers to do high dps. When I check some tank's fflogs parse I always look into the other tank's dps as well as the healers', and then the buff tabs to check for single target cards.

[Aomine1992]

I usually stance dance in O3s even tho she cast alot her autos do a lot of damage and crit pretty often but note as a DRK you can take crit hit even without grit idk about the other tanks I always do it as a DRK, for O1 and O2s you can literally take everything without tanking stance....Exdeath is doable without tank stance, on Neo hell no lol it's to.much damage for the healers to deal with instead of focusing on the MT because he isn't in tank stance but that's just my opinion

[Astral145]

I could care less about the so called tank meta. I rarely ever leave tank stance unless there are times when the boss is not attacking me for 10 secs or more. Why should I leave tank stance when the bosses auto attacks are hitting for a retarded amount of damage. Cool downs are reserved for boss mechanics or during large mob pulls.

If the Dev team wants to continue to put in dps checks then they need to put in game damage parsers for all players or remove the heavy hitting auto attacks. I refuse to put unnecessary stress on healers when stance dancing. The dev teams need to make up their minds... Just look at how they treat vit vs. str accessories... I love tanking but I refuse to fall in line with the current bs tank meta when the dev team can't give us in game parsers or make up their minds on accessories.

[Hruodig]

I could care less about the so called tank meta. I rarely ever leave tank stance unless there are times when the boss is not attacking me for 10 secs or more. Why should I leave tank stance when the bosses auto attacks are hitting for a retarded amount of damage. Cool downs are reserved for boss mechanics or during large mob pulls.

If the Dev team wants to continue to put in dps checks then they need to put in game damage parsers for all players or remove the heavy hitting auto attacks. I refuse to put unnecessary stress on healers when stance dancing. The dev teams need to make up their minds... Just look at how they treat vit vs. str accessories... I love tanking but I refuse to fall in line with the current bs tank meta when the dev team can't give us in game parsers or make up their minds on accessories.

If you're tanking dungeons, you can easily go into dps stance for bosses. They do very minimal damage with their autoattacks, and any cleaves they do are pretty easy to remember and mitigate for. Your healer isn't being unnecessarily stressed by this at all.

In savage, it more depends on the skill of your party. If your healers make bad decisions with their gcds or people are messing up mechanics/dying a lot, you might feel forced into tank stance. But If not, you can easily tank every savage fight in dps stance with smart usage of cds, and your healers will be just fine. It's not that hard.

[Astral145]

If you're tanking dungeons, you can easily go into dps stance for bosses. They do very minimal damage with their autoattacks, and any cleaves they do are pretty easy to remember and mitigate for. Your healer isn't being unnecessarily stressed by this at all.

In savage, it more depends on the skill of your party. If your healers make bad decisions with their gcds or people are messing up mechanics/dying a lot, you might feel forced into tank stance. But If not, you can easily tank every savage fight in dps stance with smart usage of cds, and your healers will be just fine. It's not that hard.

In DF I cant even count how many times my HP dropped below 30% while in tank stance due to auto attacks and if I wasn't in tank stance I would have died or I would be self healing way to often which would leave me vulnerable (low mp) during mechanics. In all honesty stance dancing should be reserved for tank swapping. It shouldn't be used for dps checks and all this other rubbish players are trying to do. Its annoying and nobody should be forced to stance dance unless its used for a specific purpose like tank swapping.

As I said before the dev team needs to create in-game parsers for all players that way dps can get better and actually beat dps checks. Tanks sole purpose in life is to be a meat shield and making sure the boss is positioned correctly during heavy mechanics and during phase changes. Outside of that is purely optional and should not be forced on anyone. If your team is not meeting dps checks then you need to look at your damage dealers to practice more or meld more materia to their gear.

If you still cant meet dps checks then the devs need to give us parsers and rework tanks damage so its inline with the current meta.