Tank skill gap, should SE do more? (damage taken issues/ hate issues)

[bswpayton]

I do realize people hate "dumbing down" suggestions and I know SE made small adjustments to make taking easier. However I still see lots !

What was the dungeon , one pulll Id say is harder on scholars than the other two healers , and I had to go upgrade my weapon. And thats the level 65 dungeon, the pull right before second boss Ive used everything before and unless a tank uses ultimate for a scholar healing that can be a bit tuff. And also SE needs to give drk another df cool down like four of their df cool downs are cross role they literally have nothing built in and I dont see how thats ok

[Snow_Princess]

What was the dungeon , one pulll Id say is harder on scholars than the other two healers , and I had to go upgrade my weapon. And thats the level 65 dungeon, the pull right before second boss Ive used everything before and unless a tank uses ultimate for a scholar healing that can be a bit tuff. And also SE needs to give drk another df cool down like four of their df cool downs are cross role they literallyhave nothing built in and I dont see how thats ok

Ala mhigo, did say expert. Um... he was doing the typical combine pulls, I seen bigger, but it is rare to see that attempted, some parts you can't though though because of the gating the pulls. i324 SCH, 330 wep

I had some newish tank after this in the temple of the fist (had some i300 gear) and he was overpulling for his gear/ skill level. I was able heal though it till he combine pulled (again the typical combine pull, im guessing he was just mimicked what he seen others do, not realizing he can't handle this yet) and we wiped due to the drk taking too much damage and miner hate issues, I couldn't keep everyone up. At least this was not a premade group, and just did it breaking the pull up.

For can't fix bad play sure you can, just have tanks take less damage? boost enmity values in moves? can't be that hard to adjust. What I meant by giving in game tips, it appears to me people do not know when to use the defense CDs and you NEED to use them vs only using them when hp is low.

I did not know spamming adlo was better in those situations though, still not right to kick me after a wipe and say nothing. I was talking about how I used all my CDs and physick wasn't enough to keep him up after all my CDs where used including dissipation

[bswpayton]

Ala mhigo, did say expert. Um..

i just found out yesterday people pull every add after second boss , but yet ive never seen this happen in any group ive ever been in , I def wouldnt do that with a scholar tho after playing scholar. But one of the biggiest things I notice about tanks tho even skilled tanks with are decent tanks, they dont aoe. I feel like if you do a big pull if ur a pali ur tp should be below half at end of pull, same with warrior, and for drk you should never see a drk with a full m p bar. So Id say even if a tank is skilled with cool downs they still not doing as much as they could tanks need to stop focusing in on one add and use some aoe and use their best cool downs on every big pull.

[Coatl]

I did not know spamming adlo was better in those situations though, still not right to kick me after a wipe and say nothing. I was talking about how I used all my CDs and physick wasn't enough to keep him up after all my CDs where used including dissipation

it was not right for them to kick you, but they probably didnt know how to give sch advice and thought it easier to find a new healer.
adlo is higher potency than physics in the form of shiield and heal, but is mp extensive sp remember to use lucid/energy drain.

[Snow_Princess]

it was not right for them to kick you, but they probably didnt know how to give sch advice and thought it easier to find a new healer.
adlo is higher potency than physics in the form of shiield and heal, but is mp extensive sp remember to use lucid/energy drain.

or they can use a cooldown? sorry it was more them then me, and it is likely I would of ran out of mp anyway doing that, the DPS wasn't exactly stealler, and that should been implied things where staying up too long if they where able spend that many Lusterates and dissipation. If the tank is over pulling for their skill level, it is up to them to pull less, not kick the healer that is unable carry that hard.

I do not like getting kicked because tanking is too hard to do for the average player. So I propose make tanking easier, more passive migrations, or make DFs have more frequent gates so people can't mass pull as much. I should not be stressing over a game because the average skill level is not up to par to handle things.

[kikix12]

For can't fix bad play sure you can, just have tanks take less damage? boost enmity values in moves? can't be that hard to adjust.

This doesn't fix bad play. It makes it easier. That means that for the GOOD players, it would be too easy. Unfortunately, the game needs to be balanced at such a point that there is still some challenge even for the good players, while it's manageable for the less skilled ones.
It's the same for all classes, even DPS. If the DPS suck, even a good tank and healer will not prevent the party dying, if for no other reason, then just cause the healer will run out of MP eventually. You can buy time running away to decrease the damage output in mob fights, or you can attempt to kite the bosses (if your PING is low enough), but that can take you so far.

I did not know spamming adlo was better in those situations though, still not right to kick me after a wipe and say nothing.

If the shield is used up entirely before your next cast, Adloquium gives more HP per cast. That's pretty obvious, with its total potency being 600 (more if it crits). But you are a scholar as well, so I guess I shouldn't have to say that Adloquium spam is impossible. It takes way too much MP for Lucid Dreaming and Aetherflow to keep up with it, especially in higher dungeons and boss fights. If you are forced to use it more than three or so times in a row every now and then, then chances are the parties survival hinges on the DPS anyway.

On a different note, Dissipation is a loss of healing in the long run. Unless all you need is a quick burst of powerful healing and a manageable healing after that, not using it is better. In a situation where you cannot keep up with the damage as is, using Dissipation will just speed up the process of the party dying out, by letting you cap the tank once, then have its health plummet shortly after.

On yet different note...Scholars healing is inferior to the other two healers since 3.0. It's a problem with the class. Having leveled all three to lvl70, I can assure you that in the same situation, with similar gear and clearly similar ability, healing with a Scholar is more challenging than with the other two healers. Not only do you have to keep healing without a break in situations where you could throw an attack here or there with the other healers, but you also have to do that while using greater variety of healing skills to keep up. For example, in a lot of content with White Mage, it's possible to just spam Cure II every-so-often with Regen in place, and attack in-between. Assize will deal with some extra free healing, while damaging and restoring some MP to boot. It's not efficient and it STILL works better than more focused Scholar play from my experiences.

[technole]

On yet different note...Scholars healing is inferior to the other two healers since 3.0. It's a problem with the class. Having leveled all three to lvl70, I can assure you that in the same situation, with similar gear and clearly similar ability, healing with a Scholar is more challenging than with the other two healers.

Lies. Scholar is just fine in any content in the game.

Scholar Fey Union can handle the hardest pulls in the game alone. That 480 potency life line goodness is so good. A nice handful of of subpar SCHs out there that manually heal too much and never build the gauge for such situations, or realize that the job is best played using its free one-button heals over manual.

Rouse+Whispering Dawn popped before Fey Union? Two big regens on a tank? Who would have thunk.

[kikix12]

Lies. Scholar is just fine in any content in the game.

I think you didn't read my post at all. I specifically said that with similar gear and skill level, playing Scholar is the most challenging, all other things being the same. I have nowhere said that Scholars cannot clear content. As I said, in similar situations, with similar gear and with me being the player in all three cases (meaning the same skill level) made me consider Scholar most demanding.

By no means do I consider myself a "top player" of any sort, and I'm further handicaped by excessive PING (which matters, a LOT, regardless of what anybody that had the luck of not having high PING may say). But hey, there are all sorts of people there, and the fundamental "early playthrough" should be comparable in difficulty to all the healer classes, while it is painfully clear it is not. The players skill difficulty spike should be reserved for the higher tiers of difficulty content, and it is visible even in most basic dungeons.


Reading requires some thought, who would have thunk...

[technole]

I think you didn't read my post at all. I specifically said that with similar gear and skill level, playing Scholar is the most challenging, all other things being the same.

I read it, you said Scholar is inferior to the other healers, calling it has problems with the class regardless of same gear level. You conveniently left it out and then added ping issues, so this is a goal post that got expanded. There is a difference between demanding and inferior.

It's not in anyway inferior even at same gear level. If you try to play it the same way as the other two healers, it will be harder. Scholar has one-button for almost every heal situation, and everytime Aetherflow is used it builds the fairy gauge which Fey Union should be liberally used, as it's the best regen of any of the three healers. Sure if DPS is slow or the tank is pretty lax about cool down use you'll have use more resources, whether it's just a tap of Excog/Lustrate. Either way, the life line adds so much wiggle room.