Two Months In: Will You Reconsider GL IV?

[RiceisNice]

this job as i said before, is not fun as how it is now(for us monk veterans), is hellish monotonous, there is no variation at all on how it plays, nothing what makes it interesting, all the job has gets memorizated and we do not need to watch for any variation...

I mean, this is true for all jobs to varying degrees. BLMs can only really do 3-4 casts of fire IV before needing to use fire, WT and FnC for DRG is always the same now. I'd argue that MNK having both ToD and fracture doesn't give any more variance either, since you can just reapply it anyway and not have it interrupt your combos. These sort of DoTs were GCDs that added no depth to the class, and would benefit more from having it's overall potency being baked into current skills or new skills.

Only thing that truly holds water is RoF being counter intuitive to the deicing of the job by reducing attack speed (similar to how WM/GB added cast times, except RoF is only present for a set time rather than being active throguhout). Though my previous issues still stand with GL4; making it a passive that allows for a 4th stacking just makes monk even more punishing to play since their DPS will be balanced around that, and regardless of how it's implemented (as a temporary buff or being a passive), having GCDs lower than 2 seconds is really not much of a benefit for players that have to deal with latency, specifically east coasters that can't properly weave oGCDs with RDM 1-2-3, MCH rapid fire or even mudras.

[Rhaja]

I'm going to be the oddball here and vote No to the topic, but for a slightly different reason. By the end of Heavensward I finally came to the conclusion that I hate GL as a class mechanic. In the 2.0 days it was exciting because it was both new and showed you were playing your class right, but at this point it's just outright annoying to take into any content. Instead of feeling like a reward for playing correctly it feels more like a baseline you need to meet in a game where bosses love to be untouchable just long enough for you to lose it.

Ultimately though I don't see how GL4 would improve anything on MNK's gameplay. After 4 years it's incredibly stale and could use some serious revitalizing. The way MNK is played in PvP feels much better than PvE and like an actual growth. A quicker access to GL3, chakra's rewarded for completed combo's along with a damaging way of gaining them, "stances" actually having use (though this is subject to the nature of PvP) and Tornado kick getting real consistent use. An actual growth to the class would do more than just a bit more attack speed.

[Bariaus]

I main MNK since ARR, and I'm not happy with what they made with E and W mechanics. So a quick loud thought, don't kill me:

- RoE is a 90s CD and now gives 30s of 10% defense, and the 10% dmg mitigated hits back the mob that hit you (any kind of damage). You don't change stance to FoE anymore.
- RoW is a 90s CS and now gives GLIV for 30s, a buff that decreases your GCD by 20%. You don't change stance to FoW anymore.
- FoE refreshes your GL counter if you get it. If it connects, you can't use FoE after 60s CD in case you change stance to another one.
- FoW gives you a 30s regen-like, stackable with regular healer regen, if you get hit. If it connects you can't change to FoW after 60s CD in case you change stance to another one.
- BH is now 5% vuln.

I'm all good with the RoF and its GCD increase because it opens a window for double weaving and optimization of DPS, since we're all too used to single weave. SE, ditch E and W tackles (for PvE).

[SpeckledBurd]

I'm going to be the oddball here and vote No to the topic, but for a slightly different reason. By the end of Heavensward I finally came to the conclusion that I hate GL as a class mechanic. In the 2.0 days it was exciting because it was both new and showed you were playing your class right, but at this point it's just outright annoying to take into any content. Instead of feeling like a reward for playing correctly it feels more like a baseline you need to meet in a game where bosses love to be untouchable just long enough for you to lose it.

Ultimately though I don't see how GL4 would improve anything on MNK's gameplay. After 4 years it's incredibly stale and could use some serious revitalizing. The way MNK is played in PvP feels much better than PvE and like an actual growth. A quicker access to GL3, chakra's rewarded for completed combo's along with a damaging way of gaining them, "stances" actually having use (though this is subject to the nature of PvP) and Tornado kick getting real consistent use. An actual growth to the class would do more than just a bit more attack speed.

I'm almost inclined to agree with you at this point on GL being aggravating as a class mechanic, not because I dislike it (even if it is far and away the most aggravating of the Job momentum mechanics at this point with BotD and Enochian's cooldowns being slashed), but because the Devs seem to be dedicated to giving us nothing but new skills to work around it rather than giving us anything that would actually be fun during expansions and adding Greased Lightning Fixes to other stuff. Think about it, Meditation, Form Shift, Tornado Kick and Riddle of Earth. Meditation and Tornado Kick both exist to mitigate how much damage Monks lose from the boss jumping. Form Shift exists to help Monk keep its stacks through shorter phases. Riddle of Earth exists to let Monk keep its stacks through longer phases where it gets hit.

It's infuriating, while other Jobs are getting new skills that they can actually regularly use we're stuck getting stupid quality of life skills like Riddle of Earth to keep our stacks when we could have had a "Refreshes your Greased Lightning when in Coeurl form" effect tacked onto Form Shift like how Black Mage had it functionally tacked onto Transpose for Enochian.

I wanted something new for Monk to get excited about for Stormblood and boy did they fail to deliver on all fronts. They moved monk backwards by taking away B4B so they could pretend the job got something new with Riddle of Fire, Tackle Mastery is so pointless that I think whoever thought it up should actually be fired, Riddle of Earth is so hyper situational and the activation requirements are so stupid that the only fight you actually need it in where it consistently works is Exdeath, and Brotherhood manages to be a cool concept that just feels like it whiffs if your party composition is wrong or if you're in a 4-man single target situation (or an AOE situation where the other DPS isn't physical or isn't AOEing).

Frankly, there isn't a solution to any of this that's going to happen until 5.0, and even then I basically have no faith to do right by Monk at this point.

[Ayirez]

As a fellow Monk I'll just throw my two cents in.

Speed is the most important thing for a Monk, like OP said our entire lore is based around it. Thus, Riddle of Fire is counter intuitive and doesn't really belong. Riddle of Earth is fine in how it currently works (being a way to keep your stacks when the mechanics of the fight would otherwise screw you over). Riddle of Wind is a joke that doesn't really even exist.

TP problems have been eliminated, even at 1400 SkS (Yes, I know it's high I just have mismatched gear) I've never had an issue with TP since SB launched. This makes Purification obsolete.

Tornado Kick has an identity crisis, as Riddle of Earth allows you to keep your GL stacks during long boss disappearances Tornado Kick isn't the best option to take. Furthermore, if you were to add GLIV and it were to still eat your entire GL stacks this would be a move never used again.

Tackle Mastery is also a joke, the Earth and Wind versions have just about zero reason to be used in almost every fight. Why did the devs choose to focus on making Shoulder Tackle a more complex move when it already has a purpose that works 100% fine? Tackle Mastery should have instead been Steel Peak Mastery, after removing the stun so that it's simply a 150 potency attack there's no reason it shouldn't have been given the Mastery system.

And the most important part, GLIV. Truly it is something I've been waiting for since 2.0, to become a speed demon faster than anyone else, more than anything GLIV is what I desire the most in FFXIV.

So, here are my ideas for fixing things.

like OP said; Add GLIV, reduce the damage output of GL stacks while keeping the speed increase the same.

Purification could be changed to giving us a stack of GL for five, or just one chakra, as TP problems aren't really an issue anymore. Hell, it doesn't even need to eat a chakra, it can just be a move that gives GL.

Remove Tackle Mastery, whether you change it to Steel Peak mastery or not. If changed to Steel Peak mastery the form effects could be;
Fire: Increases potency from 150 to 250.
Earth: Causes it to be an cone AoE.
Wind: Gives a further increase to attack speed (5%?) for 30s (Steel Peak is 60s cooldown) or, perhaps it could give a stack of GL.

Make Riddle of Fire do something more unique, rather than decreasing speed and giving a damage buff perhaps it could add 50pot to each auto attack and weaponskill?
Leave Riddle of Earth as it is.
Actually create a Riddle of Wind, currently there's no actual form change move to get into Fists of Wind, only Earth and Fire. Why this is I have no idea. Riddle of Wind could change you to Fists of Wind and double the movement speed increase while also allowing you to get off a Steel Peak with the Mastery system thus giving you a speed buff? In this way, if sprint is on cooldown but you need to rush somewhere due to messing up, Riddle of Wind would be your go to ability to save you from death. Or, optionally, it could even give you one stack of GL, making Purification, Steel Peak (Wind) and Riddle of Wind ways to get back to GLIV if it's lost.

Tornado Kick could, instead of eating all stacks of GL, only eat one stack, have reduced potency, and have a much shorter cooldown. This allows for Players to utilize the other means of GL generation (Purification, Steel Peak (Wind), and RoW) without having to die to get their full use.

Honestly speaking I'm doubtful any of this will be read or considered by the English Dev team let alone the Japanese one. The direction that Monk has gone makes it a very unattractive class as someone who has played it for years to be a speed demon. It's as though SE isn't aware of the communities feelings, and that's really sad considering how they tout that they're so in touch with us.

In any case, thanks for readin'.

[Silver-Strider]

Remove timers on Forms entirely.
Remove Tackle Mastery and make it into Form Mastery so that Form Shift functions exactly how it does in PvP.
Change Riddle of Earth into a group buff that provides extra mitigation to everyone close to the MNK, similar to Mantra.
Add in Riddle of Wind which instantly resets Shoulder Tackle CD and has it grant a Chakra Stack upon execution of the Shoulder Tackle.
Change Riddle of Fire to either provide a lower boost of damage with no slow attached, GL4 or even combine Riddle of Fire with Brotherhood so that it becomes a raid buff that applies to EVERYONE a 5% increase in their damage while also providing the MNK with Chakra.
Change Tornado Kick to spend Chakra instead of GL and make it an AoE attack.
Change One Ilm Punch into the new Touch of Death with a slightly reduced cost
Reduce TP cost of Arm of the Destroy and up the potency to be in line with other AoE moves
Return the stun on Steel Peak and up potency slightly.
Turn Fist Stances into Passives or just flat out remove them entirely and up MNK potency slightly to compensate.

[Ayirez]

Just making a revision to my earlier post and adding some things I forgot were broken.

Greased Lightning

• GLIV - Add it, reduce damage increase per stack so that it's inline with the current increase but keep the sks increase the same per stack (thus giving us 5% more than we get now).

The Riddles

• Riddle of Fire - Remove the slow, add a unique effect rather than a straight potency buff. Some examples: an extra 50 potency per auto-attack or making your main combo sequence be infused with chakra, adding 20 potency per move for 20s (If the slow is removed and you're at "normal" sks you can get off around 10 moves for a combined potency of 1100, which seems huge but considering the buff we currently get is a 30% damage increase this is probably fairly equal to it anyway).
  
• Riddle of Earth - Change "refresh upon hit" to "grant/refresh GL".
  
• Riddle of Wind - Either allow it to grant/refresh a stack of GL, increase attack speed, or even increase the sks/sps and movement speed of all those around you by 5%. Changes you to fists of wind.

Currently Flawed Abilities/Mechanics

• Tackle Mastery/Steel Peak - Remove it. Change it to Peak Mastery instead, giving added effects to Steel Peak based on the form you're in. Fire - potency increase or DoT, Earth - vuln debuff (In which case increase the timer) or additional damage reduction, Wind - grants/refreshs GL.
  
• Tornado Kick - Change it from eating all stacks of GL to just one stack, or like another user suggested have it cost Chakra instead.
  
• One Ilm Punch - Currently the stun serves zero purpose against any boss in the game, causing no one to ever use it. Remove the stun and change it to a line AoE to finally let Monks chain AoE moves together fully, or like another user suggested give it a DoT.
  
• Purification - Remove TP restoration, instead cause it to grant/refresh a stack of GL.
  
• Brotherhood - Like another user said, change the damage buff so that it applies to mages and healers as well.

These changes would allow Monk to excel in its speed identity, give more raid utility, and build up to GLIV without many problems, all while maintaining its current level of damage.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

Monk is really in a sort of identity crisis ATM.
In ARR, it's identity was it's speed and fast paced playstyle.

Starting with Ninja, this identity was already starting to vanish.

Come SB, we now have a skill that slows us down past Ninja, past SAM to the speed of a DRG in exchange for burst.
This really shouldn't be the case. No job in the game should sacrifice it's identity for the sake of power, it's just bad design, and going forward irs only going to hurt the job even more.

[Thoro39]

This whole riddle of fire-debacle is basically the Stormblood-repetition of the Bard+CastingTime debacle back then in Heavensward, where the jobdesigner of a certain job( this time, it's monk) truly seems to be out of touch with what people actually like about the job.

Better luck in the next expansion, guys.

[Bariaus]

Yup. I don't think we're getting rework on riddles for this expansion. Just and maybe some minor potency changes on some stuff.....just maybe. But we have plenty time to discuss this. BRD example for HW is on point.

Edit: Wording, and also: Is SE aware of the bad design for E and W riddles atm? For PvP is gold, but a small portion of MNKs play PvP. And I certainly don't want this job to be PvP focused. Just like NIN is too much of a party utility beesh.