Question on DF expectations

[NekoNova]

I use the duty finder because I want to run the content I have selected through it.
Sometimes this is just getting a clear, sometimes this means learning a new fight, sometimes this just means running whatever to get the tokens.

Do I expect people taking the Expert roulette to "gtg fast, clear in 10 mins"? Nope
Do I expect people taking the Trials roulette to know the fight Blindfolded? Nope

I do expect people that pick DF to have the correct gear equipped, to understand the basics and mechanics of their class.
And I expect people to be honest about their experience.
First time doing an instance? Say so, the bonus is giving it away anyways that you're new.
I simply don't expect anything from DF because as stated above, everyone and his pony joins it.

This also means:

1. Don't force your tank to run faster than he's comfortable with
2. Don't force your healer to DPS if he isn't comfortable with it
3. Don't punish DPS for performing badly

Instead ask people if they are open in doing so. Teach them what they are missing.
Too often I get negative cupcakes that ruin the experience for the whole group

You really can't wait those 10 additional minutes?
Then I'm sorry, but the DF is not for you.

[SuperZay]

Teach them what they are missing.
Too often I get negative cupcakes that ruin the experience for the whole group

You really can't wait those 10 additional minutes?
Then I'm sorry, but the DF is not for you.

You've all seen it before. You see that BLM casting only Fire 3 until out of MP and then they transpose and repeat it over and over. Or that WHM that casts Cure II as soon as tank's HP drops to 95% and never does DPS for some reason. That Warrior that refuses to use Defiance because they say it reduces their damage output and they don't need it for enmity gain. DPS who don't AOE on 6-8 mobs etc, etc.

Then you tell them what they're doing wrong and they often reply to you with "DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO" or "I can play the game however I want you elitist jerk" or even nothing at all or they leave the group entirely or vote dismiss you.

[NekoNova]

You've all seen it before. You see that BLM casting only Fire 3 until out of MP and then they transpose and repeat it over and over. Or that WHM that casts Cure II as soon as tank's HP drops to 95% and never does DPS for some reason. That Warrior that refuses to use Defiance because they say it reduces their damage output and they don't need it for enmity gain. DPS who don't AOE on 6-8 mobs etc, etc.

Then you tell them what they're doing wrong and they often reply to you with "DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO" or "I can play the game however I want you elitist jerk" or even nothing at all or they leave the group entirely or vote dismiss you.

I know.
I've ran into them before.
But I still consider them to be a minority, and keep going because the majority of people I run with are good players, even if they are new, they learn.
It's just easier to remember the bad experiences than the good ones.

[tinythinker]

I use the duty finder because I want to run the content I have selected through it.
Sometimes this is just getting a clear, sometimes this means learning a new fight, sometimes this just means running whatever to get the tokens.

Do I expect people taking the Expert roulette to "gtg fast, clear in 10 mins"? Nope
Do I expect people taking the Trials roulette to know the fight Blindfolded? Nope

I do expect people that pick DF to have the correct gear equipped, to understand the basics and mechanics of their class.
And I expect people to be honest about their experience.
First time doing an instance? Say so, the bonus is giving it away anyways that you're new.
I simply don't expect anything from DF because as stated above, everyone and his pony joins it.

This also means:

1. Don't force your tank to run faster than he's comfortable with
2. Don't force your healer to DPS if he isn't comfortable with it
3. Don't punish DPS for performing badly

Instead ask people if they are open in doing so. Teach them what they are missing.
Too often I get negative cupcakes that ruin the experience for the whole group

You really can't wait those 10 additional minutes?
Then I'm sorry, but the DF is not for you.

Can we count those who have been away or don't run certain content very often among those who NEED to speak up? I've seen some players rant in various venues that if you have jobs at 70 you must have everything down perfect and know it all. But I've also seen many players in DF who come and go for various reasons and are rusty or who may have only been in an instance once or twice (or not for months). And they don't all have a returner's crown (or it wore off). I think these players may be embarrassed to speak up that they are not confident in doing big pulls or that they don't have particular boss fights down pat. Yet they have some baseline skill and knowledge that could be encouraged or developed.

And yes, in my humble opinion if you are using DF solo or with one friend it shouldn't be a shock that you may need to take an extra 10-15 minutes to complete even if everyone is constantly casting and has a firm understanding of at least their 5-7 primary job skills. Why try to force speed runs rather than just ask if that's cool at the beginning? The former often leads to wipes, which leads to bickering, pouting, people throwing a tantrum to be kicked, people taking the drop penalty and sitting in queue again, waiting for new players to join in-progress, and votes to abandon, which make the run even longer, less pleasant, and turns new and experienced players off from the game. It isn't just your time or my time that is at stake. I totally understand being frustrated when things could be better/smoother, but if you have to have that fast clear why not run a pre-made or at least ask the DF group first if that's cool? I also get leaving when it's just too stupid, but again, that's what this thread is about? Where is that line?

It's funny, but, for all the horror stories floating around there's a large segment of players who want to learn, practice, get tokens, meet people, etc, in DF but they are caught between those with the "this better be fast and perfect" mentality and the "how dare you point out I am only using the first skill my character learned" mentality.

[bswpayton]

Can we count those who have been away or don't run certain content very often among those who NEED to speak up? I've seen some players rant in various venues that if you have jobs at 70 you must have everything down perfect and know it all.

asking can really be an inncovience sometimes it takes a bit to type out that every time you go into a dungeon. The best thing to do is play how you play and adjust accordingly, I know every dungeon for instance in the game is cappable of being big pulled. So I go in with the mentality to get the dungeon over with in 20 mins. That being said if a healer cant handle it then I will silently go back to the start and just do small pulls its really that simply I dont understand why people get all bent out of shape really. The only time I get mad is if I just don recieve a single heal at all and as someone whom plays all rolls, I know when I healer is using their skills or not.

[tinythinker]

asking can really be an inncovience sometimes it takes a bit to type out that every time you go into a dungeon. The best thing to do is play how you play and adjust accordingly, I know every dungeon for instance in the game is cappable of being big pulled. So I go in with the mentality to get the dungeon over with in 20 mins. That being said if a healer cant handle it then I will silently go back to the start and just do small pulls its really that simply I dont understand why people get all bent out of shape really. The only time I get mad is if I just don recieve a single heal at all and as someone whom plays all rolls, I know when I healer is using their skills or not.

If you know you are rusty/out of practice with the game, it isn't any harder to put that in the chat than it is for a new player to announce they are the reason for the bonus. Type it out before the queue pops and paste it as soon as the group is formed. I've done this as a new player and when I've been away, pasting it during the initial few seconds of the load-in time, and personally it helped me feel better about doing my best. The party then knew I was trying but might be rusty or forget some things on unique boss fights, so if they went ham and pulled all of the things they did so with the knowledge that I wasn't just lazy and that I might not be up to their standard. That took a lot of pressure off of me as a new/returning player and let me focus on the fights without the distraction of worrying about screwing up.

[bswpayton]

If you know you are rusty/out of practice with the game, it isn't any harder to put that in the chat than it is for a new player to announce they are the reason for the bonus. Type it out before the queue pops and paste it as soon .

That would work if you view new player bonus or returning player as a bad thing. The only time a bonus may matter is in a raid or ex trial which even then maybe it doesnt I dont assume that new players or returners are just bad. A good way to see if someone is bad is to look at their player bar, if the tank isnt using cool downs and ur healing u can see every time they use a df cool down. If a healer isnt using any buffs like largesse, regens, sheilds, rousing the fairy, thin air etc. The other day It was a returning player dragoon I dont think they used botd once I still didnt say anything because I dont like conflict.

But sometimes I will throw out tips tho, I was running msq the other day and the ot turned off grit and darkside Im guessing not knowing you can have darkside up without grit they arent one skill. But yea you can see effort by just seeing whether or not people are using their skills, just by lookin at their player bar thats the best indicator. To me its not really any excuse for not reading ur tool tips I dont expect 4k dps in a leveling dungeon or anything, but I will get frustrated if someone hasnt taken the time to read their tool tips.

And Id say the biggest grip would be dps that dont aoe, more so than any healer, new or returning if ur in a dungeon u aoe on trash mobs if its more than three adds I dont see how this can be excuse that includes tanks. Everyone has off runs are some people may have fatigue from runnin to much in a day, but in dungeons u aoe, use buffs on healer and tank, if you not tryin to do any of those then yea you are being lazy like someone else says.

But new are returning doesnt mean bad at all, most of the time Im lookin for bonuses for extra poetics for relics these days so I dont look at it as a bad thing at all. So its really no need to say hey do u want this are that the best thing to do is just play it by ear, and not get pissed cause some healer or dps couldnt handle my super pull.

[tinythinker]

That would work if you view new player bonus or returning player as a bad thing. The only time a bonus may matter is in a raid or ex trial which even then maybe it doesnt I dont assume that new players or returners are just bad. A good way to see if someone is bad is to look at their player bar, if the tank isnt using cool downs and ur healing u can see every time they use a df cool down. If a healer isnt using any buffs like largesse, regens, sheilds, rousing the fairy, thin air etc. The other day It was a returning player dragoon I dont think they used botd once I still didnt say anything because I dont like conflict.

But sometimes I will throw out tips tho, I was running msq the other day and the ot turned off grit and darkside Im guessing not knowing you can have darkside up without grit they arent one skill. But yea you can see effort by just seeing whether or not people are using their skills, just by lookin at their player bar thats the best indicator. To me its not really any excuse for not reading ur tool tips I dont expect 4k dps in a leveling dungeon or anything, but I will get frustrated if someone hasnt taken the time to read their tool tips.

And Id say the biggest grip would be dps that dont aoe, more so than any healer, new or returning if ur in a dungeon u aoe on trash mobs if its more than three adds I dont see how this can be excuse that includes tanks. Everyone has off runs are some people may have fatigue from runnin to much in a day, but in dungeons u aoe, use buffs on healer and tank, if you not tryin to do any of those then yea you are being lazy like someone else says.

But new are returning doesnt mean bad at all, most of the time Im lookin for bonuses for extra poetics for relics these days so I dont look at it as a bad thing at all. So its really no need to say hey do u want this are that the best thing to do is just play it by ear, and not get pissed cause some healer or dps couldnt handle my super pull.

As someone who had some long breaks from the game, I don't think being new or being someone who doesn't get the chance to play as much as others is bad. I think, though, many people will judge you if there is no bonus announced and you have 2-5 jobs at max level and you are struggling or not up to a certain standard in some of the fights. The typical thought I have encountered being directed at players (not yet at me though, I guess I do well enough or have been lucky in who I get for groups) is that if you have multiple jobs at max level you must able to play very, very well in all but the newest content. If you don't, then it must mean you are selfish or lazy. Not everyone thinks this way, but many do and are really vocal about it.

Also, even when grouped players who are not judgemental (such as yourself), announcing you are coming back or are rusty is being considerate, as others will then know you might need help/advice. If I have been away and just do a run without letting the group know I'm really out of practice, for example, people will see I have WHM, SCH, and AST at 70 and some will assume that I am slacking when I make mistakes in healing or don't pull enough DPS. Or that I used jump potions/PotD and am a plague on the game. I am not telling other people who are returners or rusty they *must* do this because I personally say so, I just find that it helps me and the other people in my groups if I've been away a while. Some people are embarrassed or too proud to admit they might need some help or patience from others so I'm sharing my experience with that. If others don't feel the need or don't want to say they are getting back into the game, that's their choice and I'm not judging them for it.