Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent.

[KaivaC]

I am kinda bugged by tanks holding onto their CD's "just incase" personally. I don't keep Bene and Tetra available through the whole dungeon because it's wasted MP and GCDs spent on healing. Isn't it the same with LD?

LD is definitely not the same. It has a slight delay after it activates and it only works if you hit 0HP during the 10 seconds or so that it is active. The CD on it is pretty long, and truth be told, DRKs really don't want to use it needlessly if there is not an emergency situation. Say DRKs do use it during normal pulls, and then something unexpected happens. Tank is taking massive damage with CDs and they need to pop LD...oh no, it's on a cooldown. There's goes your 10 seconds of invulnerability. LD is literally an emergency ability.

[MoroMurasaki]

Say DRKs do use it during normal pulls, and then something unexpected happens.

I don't agree with this as the core of an argument because the counter to it is simply that +90% of the time something unexpected doesn't happen. I conceded that Hallowed was better at serving this purpose but that's all the ground I'm willing to give. I could pick literally any CD that isn't Cleric Stance as a healer and say that keeping it available might avert a wipe and I could be right but that's a very boring (and most would agree suboptimal) way to play.

I just don't feel the nuance you're trying to portray really exists. It's a CD and if it isn't seeing use it isn't helping you except to give you a false sense of security.

[Moonfish]

I just don't feel the nuance you're trying to portray really exists. It's a CD and if it isn't seeing use it isn't helping you except to give you a false sense of security.

I get the feeling that you don't understand that Living Dead and Holmgang literally do nothing if the users HP doesn't hit 0. They are the "oh sht, I am going to die" buttons to give the healer a few more seconds. There is no point in using them if you're not in dire danger.

[KaivaC]

snip

Like the comment above me says, Living Dead is essentially completely useless unless you hit 0HP while you have it active. And it's not active for a long time, as its an ability you basically should should pre-emptively for damage that cannot be outhealed. Other than that, it's completely useless to use them. Tanks don't run on the same concept as healers, where I can use all my oGCDs and still keep the tank and DPS relatively topped off. Other than our defensive CDs, a DRK running around using LD at every first opportunity that's available is just wasting the skill - and doubly so if they somehow die from some high-damage attacks, which they would've been immune from if they had LD available.

I'm assuming Holmgang runs on the same concept.

You would know this if you had actually leveled a Warrior or Dark Knight past level 30.

[MoroMurasaki]

I get the feeling that you don't understand that Living Dead and Holmgang literally do nothing if the users HP doesn't hit 0. They are the "oh sht, I am going to die" buttons to give the healer a few more seconds. There is no point in using them if you're not in dire danger.

You may get that feeling but it would be wrong. Not to get too catty but I am capable of reading a tooltip and understanding the applications of a move.

Like the comment above me says, Living Dead is essentially completely useless unless you hit 0HP while you have it active. And it's not active for a long time, as its an ability you basically should should pre-emptively for damage that cannot be outhealed. Other than that, it's completely useless to use them. Tanks don't run on the same concept as healers, where I can use all my oGCDs and still keep the tank and DPS relatively topped off. Other than our defensive CDs, a DRK running around using LD at every first opportunity that's available is just wasting the skill - and doubly so if they somehow die from some high-damage attacks, which they would've been immune from if they had LD available.

I'm assuming Holmgang runs on the same concept.

You would know this if you had actually leveled a Warrior or Dark Knight past level 30.

I can basically copy and paste my response to the previous post to respond to yours but while that person at least seemed like they might be trying to be helpful you just come off condescending.

I'm not sure how you think you contributed to this discussion but as this originally tied into dungeon content I'm unsure what huge damage attacks you're saving Living Dead for that any mediocre healer can't heal through. The largest amount of damage that you see in a 4 man dungeon is not from the bosses but the trash packs pulled in succession. In that situation you could give a healer several GCDs of AoE damage by popping a CD like this while keeping yourself completely safe. If you feel like you need to hold onto this for a tankbuster from a dungeon boss maybe you need to gear up.

Also, shockingly, you don't need to level a class to learn about what it's moves do - they make that sort of info available on the intetnet. You would know that if you researched other classes you had little interest in playing so that you could have a base understanding of how they play to make grouping with them smoother.

I would have zero trust in a DF DRK trying to pull that off, as a healer (ie, I would ignore their want and keep them above 0hp in the first place). Similarly, were I the DRK I would have zero trust in my healer being able to pull me back from the brink afterwards.

It's a minimal gain if executed properly and a potential party wipe if someone messes up.

I have a button that heals all your HP in about one second on WHM which sits on a much shorter CD than LD. Just because this isn't something you do doesn't mean it isn't perfectly functional.

Also as I feel my point has been made I don't want to derail this wonderful thread anymore, if someone wants to make a thread around tank CD use I am happy to participate but otherwise I'm done arguing about something so clearly black and white.

[KaivaC]

snip

Gear up? My DRK is currently running ilvl324. My main class, AST, is sitting at ilvl316, and my SAM is at ilvl314. I think I'm pretty well geared for content outside of Omega Savage, depending on the role I choose to utilize. I have dabbled in quite a few classes, so yes, I am fully aware of what most of them are capable of.

It's not so much as saving an ability as it is something that seems unnecessary to use when its not needed. Again, if you run with DRKs and you can pull that off flawlessly, more power to you. I just personally will not use LD unless it is absolutely necessary. Same with my runs as an AST - I have not seen DRKs using it unless necessary - usually in Bartam's Mettle. Aside from that, I've never seen DRKs use it just to provide the healer some free moments to get in AOE DPS. I DPS when healing is not needed, and that has been working out well for me.