Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent.

[Avatre]

I keep tank stance up until I know I can handle the damage intake. Honestly, enmity generation isn't too bad if you're good enough with your enmity combo, even though you want to use those as little as possible. My problem is the massive influx of green DerPS we have in the game, and I'd rather have something that increases my survivability and longevity than getting chunked on a couple AAs because the healers are determined to spam Stone/Malefic/Ruin rather than spend an OGCD to bring me back up.

That too. I've had to use Living Dead more often since SB hit than I did the entire time I leveled from 30-60 during HW. And that's doing similar pulls(even doing the large pulls in HW content now I have had to use it...in full 270 gear)

[Bourne_Endeavor]

The DRK wanted to tank without Grit on and have the PLD Provoke + Shirk them to help with aggro. They refused to put Grit on even as the aggro gap between themself and the DPS grew closer and closer. I used Diversion twice in a row and still almost took aggro.

I still don't get this obsession with tank DPS. I don't get why they can't just do their jobs properly so that us DPS can do our jobs properly without constantly worrying about ripping aggro. But now I'm just beyond truly caring about it.

That... isn't unreasonable though. There is no reason the PLD shouldn't Provoke + Shirk since both abilities would sit off CD and do nothing otherwise. Forcing the DRK into Grit severely grips their DPS, which matters when you're trying to push through mechanics. The PLD isn't doing their job if they aren't utilizing role skills to help benefit both themselves and the party. It'd be the equivalent of you refusing to use Diversion when it exists solely to benefit tanks. They care about their DPS because that's all FFXIV rewards: damage. Until that changes and content actually requires more direct tanking, people will always focus on damage regardless of the role they play.

Edit: Apologies. Thought you were refusing to Savage. For normal, it's whatever. Your damage doesn't matter nearly as much.

So if tanking felt more rewarding would dps matter as much? Or if tanks gave a buff or debuff from doing their role that increased other team member's damage and got credit for the extra dps on a parser, would that make a difference?

Somewhat, yes. Enmity generation is incredibly dull in this game nor does anything require tank stance once you start getting higher level gear. Thus, people focus on damage because once you've met the mitigation and healing thresholds, there isn't anything to worry over.

[MoroMurasaki]

That too. I've had to use Living Dead more often since SB hit than I did the entire time I leveled from 30-60 during HW. And that's doing similar pulls(even doing the large pulls in HW content now I have had to use it...in full 270 gear)

As much as I want to sympathize with you about some of the more recent additions (from wow *cough*) I don't get why you'd be using Living Dead more, it's on a 5 minute CD I think... Shouldn't you use it 2 or 3 times per dungeon either way?

I am kinda bugged by tanks holding onto their CD's "just incase" personally. I don't keep Bene and Tetra available through the whole dungeon because it's wasted MP and GCDs spent on healing. Isn't it the same with LD?

[tinythinker]

Somewhat, yes. Enmity generation is incredibly dull in this game nor does anything require tank stance once you start getting higher level gear. Thus, people focus on damage because once you've met the mitigation and healing thresholds, there isn't anything to worry over.

Hmm, so if each tank job could set up a couple of different powerful combo opportunities for the dps it wouldn't be as boring and it would feel like more of a meaning contribution in between enmity combos. Well, if that would help, I'm for it.

[Avatre]

As much as I want to sympathize with you about some of the more recent additions (from wow *cough*) I don't get why you'd be using Living Dead more, it's on a 5 minute CD I think... Shouldn't you use it 2 or 3 times per dungeon either way?

I am kinda bugged by tanks holding onto their CD's "just incase" personally. I don't keep Bene and Tetra available through the whole dungeon because it's wasted MP and GCDs spent on healing. Isn't it the same with LD?

For Living Dead, I RARELY, if ever, had to use it before SB. Now I'm using it 2-3 times minimum a week.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Hmm, so if each tank job could set up a couple of different powerful combo opportunities for the dps it wouldn't be as boring and it would feel like more of a meaning contribution in between enmity combos. Well, if that would help, I'm for it.

It's more tank stance needs to have greater importance or it'll be quickly abandoned. Honestly, cooldowns are far too powerful in this game, which is another contributing factor. Content is just too easy unless you mass pull dungeons. Back in Heavensward, I had Holmgang for every single Punishing Heat Alexander does. Why would I need tank stance when I can just ignore his attacks? And that was in Savage, the hardest content released between 3.4 to 4.0. Even now, you'll drop stance fairly often. If the devs want things to change, tanks either need to take more damage and/or generate significantly less enmity without tank stance. Granted, they tried the latter and people put on 270 Slaying gear because they hated it. So...

[MoroMurasaki]

For Living Dead, I RARELY, if ever, had to use it before SB. Now I'm using it 2-3 times minimum a week.

I'm sorry, I feel like that is a ton of wasted utility. Especially if you're paired with a WHM. We have a button that heals you to full in about one second. If your healers are DPSing so much you have to use it that's like saying a tank is taking so much damage I have to use Largresse... why wouldn't I want to use my full kit?

Also your healers are DPSing. Lucky you.

[Avatre]

Also your healers are DPSing. Lucky you.

If they were DPSing then I wouldn't mind. But when they aren't, that causes an issue.

[tinythinker]

It's more tank stance needs to have greater importance or it'll be quickly abandoned. Honestly, cooldowns are far too powerful in this game, which is another contributing factor. Content is just too easy unless you mass pull dungeons. Back in Heavensward, I had Holmgang for every single Punishing Heat Alexander does. Why would I need tank stance when I can just ignore his attacks? And that was in Savage, the hardest content released between 3.4 to 4.0. Even now, you'll drop stance fairly often. If the devs want things to change, tanks either need to take more damage and/or generate significantly less enmity without tank stance. Granted, they tried the latter and people put on 270 Slaying gear because they hated it. So...

Yet many tanks who became super-squishy with 4.0 still didn't want to use tank stance, so taking extra damage didn't work either. They just felt healers should pick up their slack.

[KalinOrthos]

I'm sorry, I feel like that is a ton of wasted utility. Especially if you're paired with a WHM. We have a button that heals you to full in about one second. If your healers are DPSing so much you have to use it that's like saying a tank is taking so much damage I have to use Largresse... why wouldn't I want to use my full kit?

Also your healers are DPSing. Lucky you.

You are misunderstanding the problem, methinks. The problem isn't healers who DPS when healing is not needed. It's healers that JUST DPS. Period. Or they spam Medica 2, despite their tanks being low. The problem isn't healers throwing out DPS, though that only serves to make this DPS TRUMPS ALL OTHER THINGS meta that we're diving towards all the more cemented in these green DerPS players' minds.