Why cant we play Garlean empire?

[Theodric]

I've always felt as though Elidibus' plans would be ruined very easily if the Eorzean Alliance and Garlemald decided to team up and work together to find a solution to the Primal/Eikon threat. Much like how the White Walkers in A Song of Ice and Fire are the true threat and the political intrigue plaguing Westeros is but a distraction that serves to weaken those with the power to stand up and fight against them...it's no different where Hydaelyn is concerned.

Still, I'm hopeful that we'll see the Garlean Consulate put to use during this expansion and that the Scions will be forced to realise that Garlemald is not as irredeemable as they act like it is. They don't really have much ground to stand upon where that viewpoint is concerned, though - not when one considers Regula's actions and Zenos sabotaging his own people and openly denouncing Garlemald in front of the Warrior of Light. Then, of course, there's Baut in the side quests in Gyr Abania and the more noble of Gaius' actions.

Varis is, by all accounts, an excellent tactician. I believe he will do whatever it takes to ensure that his people and homeland survive - which may require brutal methods at times but also may require diplomacy and a more subtle approach. I think we'll see more of the latter moving forward. If not from Varis himself then at the hands of someone associated with Garlemald. For the sake of appeasing the people who don't want Garlemald to be gutted completely, though, they need to 'feel' and 'act' Garlean.

[Belhi]

I might point out, Stormblood is the first time we have attacked Garlemald unprovoked and one of the reasons negotiations haven't been on the table is because the Garleans have been unwilling to alter their intended courses of action. Every other conflict we have had with Garlemald, they started.

I think we will work with them eventually but I think it will requires some give and take on both sides. They ease up on the whole brutal oppression, genocide, and screwing with highly dangerous and unethical technologies, and we come to terms with the fact that the Garlean empire isn't all bad and is entrenched in the culture of most of their native continent now.

[CaesarCV]

I have a few issues with this particular line of reasoning. Namely the idea that Garlemald would desire peace. While Garlemald is somewhat entrenched in its territories, they seem to have done little to effect the actual cultures other than repressive actions such as outlawing religion. What people don't seem to understand is that Garlemald foreign policy so far has consisted almost entirely of conquest, and from the makeup of their Empire they're built to be in a state of constant war. A perfect example of this would be their tendency to conscript large portions of the population immediately into their armies. This is useful for the purposes of expansion, but also has repeatedly been shown to have massive, negative effects on the economy of those regions. There's a reason that Gaius was able to apparently conquer four territories before having his ambitions stopped by the Battle of Silvertear falls.

In addition, as far as I can tell the civilian applications of Magitek are relatively unexplored. This is somewhat logical for Garlemald, especially since they don't want the secrets of their magitek being allowed to non-citizens. Despite being in Ala Migho and Doma for over 20 years there is no sort of automated farming equipment, public works, or any other serious alterations of daily life. The people of the Yanxia continued their farming traditions and are mostly affected instead by terrible taxes and repressive policies. Attempts to 'Garleanize' the populations in nearly every case have been shown to be highly limited, more than partially because the Garleans themselves barely want the 'savages' allowed into their culture at all. They even explicitly need to keep their soldiers in the conquered regions to prevent revolts, which is hardly something that a noble power respected by the people would require.

Also, on a deeper level, I fear a very, very large misconception is commonly thought about Garlemald. Namely in mixing up their primary goals. Defeating the Primal is not their main purpose. It never has been, which is especially logical given how Primals are actually a rather recent problem for Eorzeans, and the Garlean conquest began far, far before even knowing about them. The Garleans hate primals and other Eikons so much since they believe that such creatures are the only things that can oppose them. And to an extent they are right. Most of the other nations they fought were conquered with relative ease, especially considering the Empire is less than a century old. Even Ala Migho, which resisted their military might for a time, was taken down by Garlean ingenuity and subterfuge. Their first major setback in nearly a century was the battle of Silvertear Falls, which showed that even their greatest machines are not invincible. They are not conquering the world to defeat the primals, they are defeating the primals to conquer the world.

Additionally, I am somewhat puzzled by the implication that Eorzeans immediately hate and mistrust all Garleans or need to understand them better. The Eorzeans have repeatedly been shown as willing to aid and even protect Garlean soldiers and affiliates. Aymeric was willing to accept Lucia as his right hand woman despite knowing of her affiliations. The 'number two' for Kan-E-Senna was a Garlean soldier. The Twin Adder saved the remaining members of the VII legion after the Battle of Cartenau. They've protected sympathetic Garleans such as Baut, and even honored Regula's last wishes and let his men recover his body. The old priest protected and helped Cid, even though he was clearly a Garlean and didn't have the memory to tell him that he was a deserter. I'm not understanding or seeing any 'intolerance towards Garlemald' other than opposition to their aggressive, dangerous, and ruthless actions. I like greyer narratives and the like, but at the same time it seems this forum has invented narratives where they don't exist.

That being said, I can definitely see the Scions helping Garlemald in the future. The scenario I figured would be some sort of threat appearing within the nation itself, one that threatens to tear the Empire apart and ruin countless others. This could lead to the situation where Garlemald might have to rely on the Scions for once, which creates hundreds of interesting scenarios and questions. Would the Scion be willing to help? Would the arguments split them apart? How would Varis feel about all of this? Would they try to trap and kill the Scions anyway? There are dozens of possibilities here, but it's also a bit off topic.

Sorry for the long posts, there's just been some thoughts I wanted to get out for a while. Happy to discuss more though!

[Mysterysword]

Despite being in Ala Migho and Doma for over 20 years there is no sort of automated farming equipment, public works, or any other serious alterations of daily life. The people of the Yanxia continued their farming traditions and are mostly affected instead by terrible taxes and repressive policies.

This actually makes me curious, is it ever mentioned anywhere that Gaius tried to do anything like introducing farming magitek into Ala Mhigo while he was viceroy? Because both the playerbase and the story itself mostly treat him (posthumously) as a more moderate alternative to the aggressive expansionist policies of the rest of the Empire. But "not as bad as the rest of them" is a pretty low bar to clear, and Gaius pretty clearly believed that the Garlean Empire, by conquering other nations, was helping them to become more civilised. Which is a popular justification that many, if not all, of the real-life empires have used throughout history. But the question remains: Did Gaius, having conquered Ala Mhigo, actually do anything like that to improve the basic quality of life in the country?

That's not a rhetorical question, I actually do want an answer. But right now, off the top of my head, I can't recall any of that, and from what we saw in Ala Mhigo and Doma, the Empire didn't do jack to help them. The end result of this is that "we're helping you savages" smacks of an impressive propaganda and indoctrination campaign, especially when we have Garlean footsoldiers who seem to be conscripts from conquered regions, shouting things like "Eorzean savages!" at us.

[Kallera]

There is a lot of magitek wreckage to sift through, presumably the result of Shinryu's rampage. would we even know what farming equipment looks like?

[CaesarCV]

Most of that wreckage is clearly visible as in game military equipment such as airships, magitek collosi and reapers. Normally I would chalk it up to military equipment being far more fun for the artists to put on the map than combine harvesters, but this applies to the quests as well. And all of those clearly show how they haven't really improved the standard of living for the Ala Mighans at all. If anything, they've made things worse through their mass conscription, ruining of several markets, and ruthless taxation. The Yanxian quests clearly show that they are following very traditional farming methods and haven't changed much. The only ones who seem to get to see any sort of magitek are the people of Radiata, who are more or less slaves not allowed to know anything about their inner workings. The Domans who were going to be sent to do magitek work were also noted as probably having to have years or decades of training forced on them...all so that they can complete years of unpaid labor and maybe be allowed back home. As far as I can tell there have been next to no lifestyle improvements.

[Mysterysword]

Most of that wreckage is clearly visible as in game military equipment such as airships, magitek collosi and reapers. Normally I would chalk it up to military equipment being far more fun for the artists to put on the map than combine harvesters, but this applies to the quests as well. And all of those clearly show how they haven't really improved the standard of living for the Ala Mighans at all. If anything, they've made things worse through their mass conscription, ruining of several markets, and ruthless taxation. The Yanxian quests clearly show that they are following very traditional farming methods and haven't changed much. The only ones who seem to get to see any sort of magitek are the people of Radiata, who are more or less slaves not allowed to know anything about their inner workings. The Domans who were going to be sent to do magitek work were also noted as probably having to have years or decades of training forced on them...all so that they can complete years of unpaid labor and maybe be allowed back home. As far as I can tell there have been next to know lifestyle improvements.

Well, we can argue that the Fringes wasn't good for farmland, and there don't seem to be any signs of irrigation or other markers of large-scale crop cultivation there. The Peaks, on the other hand, has Byregot's Bread (which makes me wonder how it was named such when the Garleans outlawed religion under their rule) nevermind, it's Byron's Bread, I can't read, which also looks fairly primitive, and no machines, I think. Coldhearth definitely has nothing, and the people there are living on the verge of starvation, by all accounts.

And this all just seems so counterproductive, to me. Didn't the Garleans ever figure out that allowing and helping their territories to, at the very least, produce more food (not even mentioning other goods or products) would equate to more taxes, or even simply more goods and services for Garlemald? That's the most basic idea of investment, after all.

It's kind of difficult to figure out just what the Garleans want when they're this stupid about it. We know, at the very least, that they want to conquer the world. But their stated reasons for conquering the world don't seem to match up with their actions. If they want resources, then they're doing a pretty poor job of getting more resources out of their conquered territories. If it's to bring civilisation to the people they consider to be savages and barbarians, they're not doing a good job of that either. If they're expanding for the sake of expansion or some ideology that they're meant to be the rulers of the world, or to follow in the footsteps of the Allagan Empire, that's just not a very sustainable idea by itself, to constantly be at war for the sake of being at war. And we can see that they're now suffering major losses as a consequence of their mindset.

[NoblePigeon]

I've always felt as though Elidibus' plans would be ruined very easily if the Eorzean Alliance and Garlemald decided to team up and work together to find a solution to the Primal/Eikon threat. Much like how the White Walkers in A Song of Ice and Fire are the true threat and the political intrigue plaguing Westeros is but a distraction that serves to weaken those with the power to stand up and fight against them...it's no different where Hydaelyn is concerned.

As long as Varis thinks genocide against the beast races is justified, and refuses to withdraw militarily from Eorzea, there's pretty much never going to be common ground between Eorzea and Garlemald. I don't care if they THINK it's justified, genocide is objectively not okay.

[VargasVermillion]

Actually the garlean conquest is heavily motivated by primals, or at least made them more certain they were 'doing the right thing.' when solus first encountered the damage primals could do it provided more clarity to what the empire should be doing and that is more or less unification through force and to stamp out primal belief which to them is any god at all.

Garlinizing culture comes down to military most of the time, we see it in doma how they have separate uniforms for soldiers in the east and it's not to bring cultures into their own, but more to make those cultural aspects more garlean.

[Rufalus]

Player fighting for garlean empire would either be locked out of story or need a different main scenario created for them