Warrior of Light: A Mindless Killer

[WhiteArchmage]

I've made it no secret that I deliberately inject a bit of humour into my posts to liven things up a little. Do you really think I'm being wholly serious when I say stuff like 'we can take comfort in the righteousness of my cause'?

I really, really, REALLY, didn't want to get involved in this but: intentions such as dark humor, sarcasm, and assorted "tones" are very hard to convey through text. This goes for you and Cilia, who's also fond of using sarcasm in their posts, making them come across as insulting where no insult was (I hope) intended. Your second post on this discussion, intentionally or not, came across as very insulting, thus the whole diatribe; add a "(joking)" or "/sarcasm" or another marker, otherwise you're giving free reign (this goes for everyone) for anyone to misread your intentions.

[Scremin]

His posts are better than the majority of tripe posted on this forum, I'll say that much.

That's your opinion, and I'm not gonna argue over it, however, in my point of view, both Keever and Mysterysword hit right on the mark with what they said about the tone, and about its almost always about the same things... even when it bears almost no relevance to the topic being discussed, and then, refuse to take others opinions on the matter.
Seriously I'm afraid I'm gonna see all his Garlemald is not that bad and WOL is worse agenda on a thread about... moogles or (insert random topic that has nothing to do with either Garlemald or WOL).../S
But seriously, that can get annoying, so I avoid it =)

[Theodric]

I've never said that the Warrior of Light is 'worse' than Garlemald, though? Merely that he isn't some delicate, perfect little flower who can never do things differently or be criticised. I think some of you need to take a step back, take in a deep breath, let it slowly and then have a nice cup of tea.

At the end of the day it's a discussion board for a fictional setting. If people are getting so worked up over specific posters then that's pretty troubling. I bear nobody here no ill will and it's troubling to see that is seemingly not a mutual affair.

You could at least pretend to be impartial. I've deliberately avoided bringing Garlemald in specific threads unrelated to Garlemald only for one of the other regular posters involved in those debates to bring up Garlemald and set everything off again. I'm not sure how often I have to state that I'm happy to avoid discussing Garlemald entirely if the people apparently so weary of these debates do the exact same thing themselves. There's a wealth of other aspects of the lore I enjoy - hence why I am currently role-playing an Ala Mhigan in-game. So it's dishonest to act like I only post about specific topics. You don't know me. Most people who post here don't know me. I won't pretend to know you, so please show me the same courtesy in turn. Thanks!

I really, really, REALLY, didn't want to get involved in this but: intentions such as dark humor, sarcasm, and assorted "tones" are very hard to convey through text. This goes for you and Cilia, who's also fond of using sarcasm in their posts, making them come across as insulting where no insult was (I hope) intended. Your second post on this discussion, intentionally or not, came across as very insulting, thus the whole diatribe; add a "(joking)" or "/sarcasm" or another marker, otherwise you're giving free reign (this goes for everyone) for anyone to misread your intentions.

A fair point! I'm rather stereotypically British with a subtle sense of humour that isn't always apparent, especially online. At the end of the day, though, I'd like to think most people know that - and they're more than welcome to ask for elaboration instead of assuming the worst possible scenario and developing grudges over discussions that are, ultimately, pretty trivial in the grand scheme of things.

[Mysterysword]

snip

So anybody who disagrees with you is simply a sheep, blindly conforming to a biased narrative. Got it. Special snowflake mentality, that sure explains a lot about you.

But if you refuse to agree with anything else I say, do at least agree with me when I say this: you're not worth bearing a grudge against, it's just that your ubiquitous posts on a ridiculously limited subject matter are annoying. That's my opinion, and I do believe I shall stick to it.

[Scremin]

Alright alright, I apologize if I sounded offensive or took it personal... All this forum toxicity might be getting to me even though I'm mostly a lurker... However I do disagree with some things you say but I don't wanna start yet another pointless argument!

Anyway, to add something relevant to the discussion of the thread, I don't think the WOL is a flowery pot of all that is sugar, sweet, and everything that is good... I mean, from MSQ alone we might have killed more people than the primals themselves (exaggeration ) but really, we killed a lot of garlean soldiers, bandits, and w/e the hell was between us and our goals... and no I'm not naive enough to believe we just knocked them out... really a whole army against you and you gonna knock all of them one by one? But i dont think that's what define the WoL personality... What defines it is actually the side quests, job quests, and the little choices we actually can make, wich is the reason why aside from MSQ, and a few quest chains like Alexander, Omega, and well, other crap that would have ended the world, not all the other content is canon, and wich side quests and job quests you do is what defines your WOL.


That's my two cent on the subject =) Sorry if I used any weird word... English is not my native language =)

[Cilia]

I need to handle this very, very delicately...

Uhh... what everybody else said. Except Theo and Lauront. Especially Lauront.

To add my own two cents, the incessant use of "nuance" as a buzzword is, in and of itself, really, really irritating.

As for myself... I do apologize if my sarcasm comes across as scathing, but my intention is never to provoke ill will or come across as condescending. If ever I am being sarcastic, I'm trying to provoke thought (or otherwise have simply lost my patience - I'm only human). I'd rather try and get people to reconsider their stance than flat-out tell them they're wrong (because they just aren't considering the nuances of the subject, /sarcasm), and I'd rather they come to a realization on their own with just a (sometimes scathing) nudge on my part. (I am totally aware this makes me look like a jackass sometimes. I got hit with the banhammer for it once, y'know!) Or not. I can't force people to my point of view, nor will I try to. I'm not afraid to defend it or let people know if I disagree, though.

Bleh. Hate talking about myself; makes me feel all pompous and shit.

Apropos of nothing, the next Magic set has a legendary dinosaur. Naya Dinosaur Tribal EDH deck here I come! DINO-MITE!

P.S. Mysterysword, I apologize for blowing your criticism of "A Calm After the Storm" out of proportion. It felt like you were making a Very Big Deal™ [/sarcasm] out of it, and I did not understand why, and kept blowing up the scope. That was my fault and I am sorry for it.

P.P.S. Hey, Theo? Not attacking you, but... uhh... I ran into someone in-game the other day, and he used to be a regular poster here. Said he stopped, in part, cuza you. In the spirit of confidentiality I won't say his name; and I might be sarcastic a lot of the time, but I do my utmost to avoid lies since I hate them. Just something to consider.

[Theodric]

-snip-

I have no issue with people disagreeing with me, actually. I'm as sick of this tiresome debates as everybody else - which I have stated numerous times in recent weeks. Again, I'm going to spell it out - I am perfectly content to agree to disagree. Though that requires a group effort and it most certainly requires people to stop being immature and trying to use me as a scapegoat or make it into a competition as to who is 'worse'. You can put words in my mouth all you like, I'm a stubborn guy and I'm not going to back down.

You - and others - can also help by ceasing to push false narratives. I post across multiple boards on his forum about a vast variety of subjects. If we're dealing with the lore forum in particular, though, even then I post about a vast variety of subjects unrelated to Garlemald. Yet those threads, unfortunately, do not seem to get nearly as much traction. Which, again, boils down to the whole 'group effort' thing I mentioned. It's simply dishonest for posters to claim that I swoop into every other thread and make it about one of a handful of aspects of the game lore even if it's irrelevant to the subject matter. I've done it on occasion, certainly - but there's been threads that I've deliberately avoided posting in only to see them blow up because someone else decided to bring up those same unrelated subjects.

FFXIV is a richly detailed setting and I believe it to be the best MMO on the market at present in terms of world building. I'm interested in the lore as a whole, not just the specific subjects I'm accused of favouring. I mean I'm role-playing an Ala Mhigan at the moment because I find them interesting.

So, again, I'm just going to throw the same offer on the table: either the posters involved in these debates agree to disagree where personal interpretations of morality and character motivations are concerned...or I continue to engage in those debates in an effort to stop them being so one sided. It's clear most of those involved aren't going to change their minds and it's also clear that the debates in question are becoming circular and preventing people from enjoying this board for what it is - myself included.

P.P.S. Hey, Theo? Not attacking you, but... uhh... I ran into someone in-game the other day, and he used to be a regular poster here. Said he stopped, in part, cuza you. In the spirit of confidentiality I won't say his name; and I might be sarcastic a lot of the time, but I do my utmost to avoid lies since I hate them. Just something to consider.

I've met numerous people myself who refuse to post on this board despite being heavily invested in the game's lore. Many of them have stopped posting altogether simply because they're well aware that many aspects of the game involve major shades of grey and yet any attempt to discuss them ends up being very one sided. It's ridiculous to attribute that to any one poster, though. Utterly so - not only because it's a problem with numerous people being to blame but simply because no one poster holds such sway or power over this place.

At the end of the day this particular board's community has always been fairly niche. Agreeing to disagree on the matters brought up and refusing to exploit specific individuals as convenient scapegoats is the best route to take to prevent things getting any worse.

I'm a firm advocate of diplomacy to solve issues and as such it's always been an option I've proposed at multiple points. At the same time, I'm not going to roll over and allow myself to be a scapegoat or become another of the people driven away from this place.

[Belhi]

I don't really come here and post with the intent of changing peoples minds but rather discussing different perspectives. I disagree with Theo's arguments about a lot of things but I still generally respect them. I think different perspectives offers a more interesting analysis than everyone agreeing as long as the facts behind any arguments or viewpoints are accurate. Its not usually as much of a discussion if everyone totally agrees with each other.

I think perspectives are hugely important and likewise I don't think the WoL has to be flawlessly morally sound and beyond reproach. Humans generally aren't and the game drives that home as such. Fundamentally the WoL is someone trying to do the right thing. A lot of the time 'the right thing' is hazy and a matter of perspective. It was right to stop Nidhogg but it was killing someone seeking vengeance for the murder of his family. Its wasn't really a happy thing we had to kill Nidhogg and frankly it wasn't true justice. True justice in that situation was pretty much impossible. We had to just push through, doing what was necessary to break the cycle.

For me, one thing that makes the WoL so compelling, is that its hard to be the hero and the good guy. Its one of the reasons I really love the DRK quests. They spell it out. There is no simple path to saving the world, no certain course of action, no way to do what needs to be done without there being a cost and that cost isn't only for the WoL. Sometimes there is not right answer or even an clear answer at all. The WoL tries knowing that often they will fall short in some area, that someone will suffer and die, that often all the sacrifices will be taken for granted or exploited by some for selfish reasons. They are always climbing a mountain, only to discover that there is yet another mountain to climb. But they keep climbing because they have to try.

In SB we have the ironic situation that we are actually the Aggressors. We invade Ala Mhigo mainly because we are convinced that Garlemald would use it as an excuse to launch another round of conquest. However the Emperor specifically instructed Zenos not to push beyond the border of Ala Mhigo. We didn't know this. We were acting on the best information we had. Frankly we probably helped a lot of people because we did. However we were the aggressor in this particular case. That makes things a bit more grey. Effectively this is an unprovoked attack by the Eorzean Alliance on Garlean territory. We didn't know that and our other reasons are quite sound, but that doesn't change the fact that we aren't defending ourselves here. We are attacking a group that is currently non aggressive.

[Kohdo]

Friendly reminder that the Garlean Empire did nothing wrong.

[Mysterysword]

P.S. Mysterysword, I apologize for blowing your criticism of "A Calm After the Storm" out of proportion. It felt like you were making a Very Big Deal™ [/sarcasm] out of it, and I did not understand why, and kept blowing up the scope. That was my fault and I am sorry for it.

It didn't bother me all that much. Sure, it was irritating and confusing when people refused to get my points no matter how clearly or frequently I explained them, but it didn't make me angry. I reserve my anger for abusers, molesters, and people who practice scat fetishplay in hotel rooms, leaving the hotel staff to clean up their literal shit.

Now, if there's anything that I think this thread has shown, it's that the WoL is, ultimately, very far from a mindless killer. On at least 3 separate occasions, we're shown victory screens after a battle, in which we explicitly do not revel in our win. Off the top of my head: Phoenix, Tam-Tara HM Edda, and either Floor 50 or 100 of PotD. These examples do show that we're capable of feeling regret, even if we will disregard that regret in order to do what we need to do.