Please scale the difficulty of Royal Menagerie

[Nestama]

The fight is so forgiving anwyays. I like the fight and it makes butthole scratchers during their play pay more attention

I love the fight as well and will /happy any time I get it in Trial Roulette (like today). It keeps me awake.

I will stop Raising DPS who die more than three times, though...

What about fights that are actually hard, like Omega Savage or the "Beyond Savage" fight coming in 4.1? Should raiders be punished for learning a fight?

I think you might be replying to the wrong person.

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The system we have is called Vote Kick. If someone is frequently dying and causes a wipe, then we remove them from the group (difference in playstyle is a legitimate reason. Even if someone is new, if they are outright refusing to learn mechanics they have died to frequently, it is perfectly fine to kick them. You do not have to carry newbies who choose not to learn). One limitation that should be applied to TRM is having the level 70 Job Quest cleared.

[RitsukoSonoda]

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Vote Kick itself is abused and full of it's own exploitable flaws resulting in other issues with the game. If difference in playstyle is a legitimate reason for kicking someone from a duty, then why have people been nailed by GM's in the past for kicking someone for the exact reason of dying multiple times in a duty? Difference in playstyle covers such a broad scope that if its considered a legitimate reason then we basically need no reason to kick someone from a duty.

Most cases outside of Savage raids its multiple people dying repeatedly causing a wipe and if its the bad players that are the majority in the party the votes often will not pass as seen in 24man raids.

[Nestama]

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Hence why I mentioned 'outright refusing to learn the mechanic they've died to frequently.' The moment you notice that someone is clearly aiming for a carry (again, choosing not to learn a mechanic they always die to), you kick them and yes, this is after you try to explain the mechanic to them. You tried, they didn't want to learn, why should you carry them?

[LineageRazor]

The system we have is called Vote Kick. If someone is frequently dying and causes a wipe, then we remove them from the group (difference in playstyle is a legitimate reason. Even if someone is new, if they are outright refusing to learn mechanics they have died to frequently, it is perfectly fine to kick them. You do not have to carry newbies who choose not to learn). One limitation that should be applied to TRM is having the level 70 Job Quest cleared.

The idea that there are tons of folks deliberately looking for a carry is a pretty tiresome myth. While exceptions may exist, virtually no one goes into an instance with the deliberate intention of just sitting back and enjoying the ride. People WANT to be useful. They WANT to contribute. The problem is that not all of them CAN.

When a newbie fails the same mechanic six times in a row, they aren't "refusing to learn". They just suck at that particular mechanic. They don't recognize how to anticipate it, or their reflexes are poor. Perhaps they're having trouble learning the mechanic, but that's a whole different world from refusing to learn it.

The ideas of folks deliberately seeking carries, or intentionally refusing to learn are fictions created by better players in order to allow themselves to feel justified in getting rid of the folks holding them back - to alleviate the guilt of kicking them by making it seem as though the folks being kicked DESERVE to be kicked.

Having said all this, I'm not suggesting that players who are having a difficult time learning the fight should not be kicked. On purpose or not, they ARE holding back the rest of the group, and the good of the many outweighs the good of the one. I just want folks to recognize what they're doing for what it really is: they are kicking someone not for being a bad person, but for being a bad player.

[Nestama]

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That's why I mention 'refusing to learn.' If the person having issues is at least communicating, apologising and actually trying to avoid the mechanic, well at least we can see they're trying. When I say refusing to learn, I mean someone who doesn't respond at all and doesn't seem to try and move to deal with a mechanic.

Yesterday I had a DRG in the party (who also did not do their level 70 Job Quest) who died to Tidal Wave three times. This is arguably the easiest mechanic to learn in this fight and we explained what to do (go to water spout/follow everyone else), but they died to it every time (they didn't try to group up). Another one they died to every time was the 'Dive Bomb' attack after the phase transition (we didn't explain this one, but... why should we?). I was ready to vote kick them if we wiped a third time, as they spent most of the fight dead (I think they got a total of ten raises in one run).

[akaneakki]

I love the fight as well and will /happy any time I get it in Trial Roulette (like today). It keeps me awake.I will stop Raising DPS who die more than three times, though...

I fully agree there! I even que it sometimes to help people and I always go healer to make sure the people who dies gets raised and that I can actually do it on my own with a healer who fails a lot as well.