Tank role action complaint time

[Alistaire]

Still, they lack utility overall. They are more "Must have" you can hardly swap, especially not at will, because you will either have to take some of them for proper content, or be suboptimal :x.

Choice only matter when choices are equally usefull, when some are underwhelming and some are mandatory, choices are just the illusion of ones.

To be fair, that does fit in with the rest of the game though.

[Umbeliel]

No because you've done nothing more than share your opinion. Which, no offense, isn't worth anything to anyone.

Are we just ignoring the part where the comment is worth your attention to bicker about apparently. Because your opinion about his opinion didn't have to be here either.

And now I join this cycle. The endless train of people being Wrong On The Internet(tm)

(It's bad design.)

[MauvaisOeil]

Worth enough to get a specific answer, I'd say. I'm quite proud it's worth something for you then.

Every opinion share the same fate : Some will like them, other will dislike them.

And the main goal of this area is to share opinions, but bad design cannot allways be mathed, when it's the the numerical values that are engaged, but the whole assembly. A shared role pool with that much disparity would have been acceptable if it was sharing it's tool between PVE, PVP and let's say, any other drastically different game goal.

But it's not, as PVP is now an almost different game with specific constraints and other choices to be made. Which leaves the kit for PVE only and... well I will not repeat myself throught different posts.

[Felorr]

I guess I expected too much from a "complaint thread".

Role actions. Are they really as bad as people are making them out to be? Earlier in this thread it seemed the focus of complaints surrounded this notion that because specific role actions taken from other tank jobs somehow devalued them or the job We must stop looking at how things "used to be" as a means of balance. The old system of role actions had even more "required" abilities.

[Umbeliel]

I guess I expected too much from a "complaint thread".

Role actions. Are they really as bad as people are making them out to be? Earlier in this thread it seemed the focus of complaints surrounded this notion that because specific role actions taken from other tank jobs somehow devalued them or the job We must stop looking at how things "used to be" as a means of balance. The old system of role actions had even more "required" abilities.

Both are bad. Role is better in concept, worse in implementation. The skills moved to role should have at least stayed native on the classes they were removed from, and removing skills was a half-hearted approach to handling button bloat. The role skills would have been better implemented in pretty much any way save for the way they decided to actually do so.

[Ultimatecalibur]

Both are bad. Role is better in concept, worse in implementation. The skills moved to role should have at least stayed native on the classes they were removed from, and removing skills was a half-hearted approach to handling button bloat. The role skills would have been better implemented in pretty much any way save for the way they decided to actually do so.

I completely disagree. The Role skill system is far better than what we had and the only reason people complaining is because "They changed it. Therefore it sucks."

The only real problem with the current Cross-role system is the annoyance factor of swapping skills out which leads to a "set it and forget it" mentality. If we could create quick swap role-skill sets few would be complaining about the system.

[ovIm]

I completely disagree. The Role skill system is far better than what we had and the only reason people complaining is because "They changed it. Therefore it sucks."

The biggest issue with the Role Action System in its current implementation is that it suggests choice where there is none. Many of the skills available are not optional skills that you can use to alter your playstyle, but are rather mandatory skills your role needs to perform, like Provoke.

The Role Action System would have been better, imho, if you were to just unlock the skills after you have reached a certain level. That way, Square does not have to worry about tank core abilities being locked in a class, and the players do not feel like they have to take cuts.

[Fyce]

The biggest issue with the Role Action System in its current implementation is that it suggests choice where there is none. [...]

There are some "mandatory" role skills like Rampart, which is good in every situation, but there are also situational skills which one might call "optional".
Funny thing, you took Provoke as an example of a mandatory skill... but it's actually not. It's one of the situational ones. Granted the "situation" happens quite often, but you'd be surprised by the amount of situations where Provoke is useless.
Besides, as Ultimatecalibur said, it's still better than the old system. And it never was meant to be something which would have revolutionized FFXIV's customization options. It's just a nice little touch meant to make you press a macro button from time to time to swap some role skills set depending on the content you're doing. No more, no less.

In short: Is the system perfect? No. Is it good enough? Yes.

[ovIm]

In short: Is the system perfect? No. Is it good enough? Yes.

I absolutely agree with that statement, I see it the same way. Its definitely an upgrade to what we used to have.

However, I still think there are more "mandatory" skills than you might think. Provoke is very situational in 4 man dungeons, I admit that, but it becomes mandatory in 2 tank situations where you have to provoke for a tankswap. The "lower" cooldowns convalescence, anticipation and awareness can have their shining moments in dungeon pulls (awareness + raw intuition is an amazing tool for wars e.g.). Rampart and Reprisal should always be picked.

As much as the new system is better, I dont believe we need to have our choice of skills limited to 5. Just give us all of them when we reach the according level.

[Starkbeaumont]

as already mentioned in another thread, i don't see why we have to choose at all. we should have access to all 10 skills at the same time.