What areas of lore would you like to see more of?

[VargasVermillion]

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Juggernauts are believable but the actual warships? Not so much, unless they have ambush tactics for when they decide to land I would simply assume they are too high in the sky to simply shoot down with magic. It's more so how the lore hypes up garleans as this threatening military force with destructive weapons and warmachina yet they are shown to be quite easy to eliminate, I mean it'd be like having one side with airplanes and one with 1700's weaponry. It's pretty obvious which one would lose. Not to sound harsh but I think the lore within the actual plot is quite lazily implemented whereas the world surrounding it is quite in-depth and makes some degree of sense, it's just once that comes into the MS it becomes underwhelming.

[FJerome]

Juggernauts are believable but the actual warships? Not so much, unless they have ambush tactics for when they decide to land I would simply assume they are too high in the sky to simply shoot down with magic. It's more so how the lore hypes up garleans as this threatening military force with destructive weapons and warmachina yet they are shown to be quite easy to eliminate, I mean it'd be like having one side with airplanes and one with 1700's weaponry. It's pretty obvious which one would lose. Not to sound harsh but I think the lore within the actual plot is quite lazily implemented whereas the world surrounding it is quite in-depth and makes some degree of sense, it's just once that comes into the MS it becomes underwhelming.

The times we've seen actual warships brought down it was largely thanks to the Dravinians, Midgardsormr knocking that entire invasion force out of the air at the Battle of Lake Silvertear and Hraesvelgr giving Ysayle that assist in Azys Lla. As long as the dragons keep helping the Alliance out on that front, for whatever their own inscrutable reasons, Eorzea cannot be invaded by air using Garlemald's current technology standards.

[VargasVermillion]

As long as the dragons keep helping the Alliance out on that front, for whatever their own inscrutable reasons, Eorzea cannot be invaded by air using Garlemald's current technology standards.

Still doesn't explain how they did it for ala mhigo, the dragons weren't there and even if there are some dragons there it's not a guaranteed victory, unless they have another midgardsormr. You're right that with the dravanians there they would have a hard time taking the skies in all of aldernard but that depends on whether the dragons would even bother, I remember being mentioned in a lore Q&A that when asked if they'd join the fight they said Dragons are simply indifferent to whatever empire exists at the time. to them Allag was only a few weeks ago.

[Enkidoh]

Juggernauts are believable but the actual warships? Not so much, unless they have ambush tactics for when they decide to land I would simply assume they are too high in the sky to simply shoot down with magic. It's more so how the lore hypes up garleans as this threatening military force with destructive weapons and warmachina yet they are shown to be quite easy to eliminate, I mean it'd be like having one side with airplanes and one with 1700's weaponry. It's pretty obvious which one would lose. Not to sound harsh but I think the lore within the actual plot is quite lazily implemented whereas the world surrounding it is quite in-depth and makes some degree of sense, it's just once that comes into the MS it becomes underwhelming.

Don't be so quick to discount Eorzean military technology and the apparent 'superiority' of Garlean machina - we ourselves after all shoot down a fully armed and armoured Garlean dreadnought airship during CM with a single ground-based anti-aircraft cannon (granted the cannon was also Garlean made, but that's beside the point) and the ship quickly becomes scrap metal after only a couple of hits.

The various wrecks seen in the Fringes are still on fire so their destruction was fairly recent, and was probably caused by Alliance cannons mounted on the Wall (which is very tall), so problems with range would have been reduced or eliminated.

To say nothing of research guilds like the Garlond Ironworks and the Skysteel Manufactory utilizing Garlean magitek concepts and adapting them for their own use, thus allowing the Alliance to effectively turn Garlemald's might against them.

Either way, don't write off the ability of the Alliance to bring down Garlean airships reasonably easily, as it's clear they indeed are more than capable of doing it.

[VargasVermillion]

snip

These are all good points but I feel like if these examples reflect reality it should be made more clear and kinda goes back to what I'd like to see more of within the lore, specifically when stormblood's MS took center stage. Because it basically feels like we've gone from being scared of fighting the imperials head on to just doing it with little change in circumstances, Also retaking Doma castle in particular was very underwhelming but I'm just assuming they got lazy with the cutscenes before the dungeon and we are to guess more happend off-screen.

[Wyssahtyn]

Don't be so quick to discount Eorzean military technology and the apparent 'superiority' of Garlean machina - we ourselves after all shoot down a fully armed and armoured Garlean dreadnought airship during CM with a single ground-based anti-aircraft cannon (granted the cannon was also Garlean made, but that's beside the point) and the ship quickly becomes scrap metal after only a couple of hits.

The various wrecks seen in the Fringes are still on fire so their destruction was fairly recent, and was probably caused by Alliance cannons mounted on the Wall (which is very tall), so problems with range would have been reduced or eliminated.

To say nothing of research guilds like the Garlond Ironworks and the Skysteel Manufactory utilizing Garlean magitek concepts and adapting them for their own use, thus allowing the Alliance to effectively turn Garlemald's might against them.

It wasn't a dreadnought, it was an assault craft. Far smaller and presumably less armed/armored. Nor was it only the one cannon or "a couple of hits". There are three or four cannons in the area, and while I don't remember the exact amount, it takes somewhere around 5-7 shots before the assault craft's hull integrity is compromised, with another two after that to ground it.

Also the fact that it was a Garlean cannon is a point. The design between Eorzean and Garlean cannons is completely different, and the ones used by Eorzean ones, outside of possibly Ishgardian artillery, are for the most part incapable of handling anti-air duties in any suitable manner unless the Garlean aircraft takes to the ground (for some reason. I'll never claim to know why they do) or if they're otherwise already level with the target, the chances of which are negligible since the point of air to ground attacks is to take advantage of the high angle of attack available. Ishgardian dragonkillers are relegated to a possibility due to their uncertain usage. If they only fire harpoons as in Bismarck and Steps of Faith, then they're incredibly inefficient due to a low rate of fire and accuracy (since there's apparently no way to aim outside of a sense of good timing; Bismarck is too big to miss). For Bertha cannons, it's unknown if the Ishgardians made some modification to allow them to adjust their angle of fire high enough to be of use, otherwise the highest angle of fire would be somewhere around like, 30 to 40 degrees. All instances of Berthas being used involve firing at a target that they're either level with or slightly below of, so I doubt they did. Garlean cannons (more like mortars with their design) on the other hand have a high angle of fire, are apparently simple to load and fire since the WoL and members of his posse can handle them with ease and no training, and are presumably far more mobile than Eorzean cannons.

Additionally, the destruction in the Fringes is far more likely to have been a result of Shinryu and Omega's conflict, which occurred on the Ala Mhigan side of Baelsar's Wall if I recall correctly. Particularly since Raubahn informs you when you initally join him at Castrum Oriens that the only conflict up to that point had only been light skirmishes when Alliance and Garlean patrols encountered each other. I think he would have mentioned if Alliance forces had destroyed a noticeable amount of Garlean armor/air.

Furthermore, the only contribution to Eorzea that we've been told Garlond Ironworks provided was the introduction of magitek. Which from all appearances appears to be limited to unarmed cargo/passenger airships and various appliances. Of their adventuring gear, Rowena has the sole rights to supplying it. On to the Skysteel Manufactory, outside of their already available artillery, munitions, and manpower, I fail to see how they might have come up with any significant innovations for the Alliance in the absurdly short time between the end of the Dragonsong War and Operation Rhalgr's Beacon.

On top of all this, there's the matter of Garlean armor plating. A quest in Mor Dhona shows that the Garleans use armor plating made of cermet in their airship hulls. Cermet in the real world is a composite material composed of ceramic and metallic materials. In more relevant terms, it's basically used for ceramic armor, provided that SE intended the parallel. Ceramic armor's used for things like tanks, other armored vehicles, and personal armor, and its effectiveness as vehicle armor is such that "not a single British Army Challenger tank was lost to enemy tank fire during Desert Storm". So it's unlikely that Eorzean artillery would do anything more than dent the hull unless their munitions are far more advanced than they have any right to be.

Well, Drest's situation in Eastern La Noscea pretty much showed that the Alliance actively shoots down Garlean fighters such as Juggernauts with cannons (his Juggernaut he specifically stated was shot down by Maelstrom cannons), which would also explain the various wrecked airships and machina lying around the Fringes as well.

You stated this in an earlier post, but combing over quests that Drest is involved in with Garland Tools Database shows no evidence to support your statement. Drest was part of a Garlean scout unit which was ambushed by Maelstrom forces in heavy rain, but at no point does he state that "his" juggernaut was shot down by Maelstrom cannons.

Also End of an Era showed BLMs and THMs easily destroying magitek armour with mere fire and thunder spells, so for all their blustering, Garlean machina isn't quite as indestructible as they make it out to be.

Another earlier post from you, but aside from it being a CGI cutscene with Cutscene Power to the Max, the spells used don't look in any way to be "mere" fire and thunder spells. The spells used are very obviously powerful with lengthy cast times (15 seconds for the BLM's second fire spell).

[YianKutku]

Ishgardian dragonkillers are relegated to a possibility due to their uncertain usage. If they only fire harpoons as in Bismarck and Steps of Faith, then they're incredibly inefficient due to a low rate of fire and accuracy (since there's apparently no way to aim outside of a sense of good timing; Bismarck is too big to miss). For Bertha cannons, it's unknown if the Ishgardians made some modification to allow them to adjust their angle of fire high enough to be of use, otherwise the highest angle of fire would be somewhere around like, 30 to 40 degrees. All instances of Berthas being used involve firing at a target that they're either level with or slightly below of, so I doubt they did. Garlean cannons (more like mortars with their design) on the other hand have a high angle of fire, are apparently simple to load and fire since the WoL and members of his posse can handle them with ease and no training, and are presumably far more mobile than Eorzean cannons.

It would be very, very odd for Ishgardian dragonkillers to not be able to fire upwards, since that's where their intended targets tend to be. It would also be very odd for dragonkillers to be inaccurate, since I doubt dragons present easy targets. If they are so useless against their primary foe, why were they still in use?

As for ease of use, the WoL and comrades can easily use Eorzean artillery just as well as Garlean ones (eg Steps of Faith, Stone Vigil Hard). Evidence leans more towards these being easily usable rather than the WoL being special.

Additionally, the destruction in the Fringes is far more likely to have been a result of Shinryu and Omega's conflict, which occurred on the Ala Mhigan side of Baelsar's Wall if I recall correctly. Particularly since Raubahn informs you when you initally join him at Castrum Oriens that the only conflict up to that point had only been light skirmishes when Alliance and Garlean patrols encountered each other. I think he would have mentioned if Alliance forces had destroyed a noticeable amount of Garlean armor/air.

On the other hand, I would assume there would be mention of Garlean interference in the battle between Shinryu and Omega if it happened. Before that, when Shinryu was still encased, we were told that the Garleans sent an airship (no classification given) to investigate. The airship was destroyed, and the Garleans decided not to press the issue, avoiding the area thereafter.

Later, when Merlwyb attempted to describe (poorly) the battle between Shinryu and Omega, she just said that Shinryu and Omega fought over Gyr Abania. Nothing about any Garleans in the vicinity.

Furthermore, the only contribution to Eorzea that we've been told Garlond Ironworks provided was the introduction of magitek. Which from all appearances appears to be limited to unarmed cargo/passenger airships and various appliances. Of their adventuring gear, Rowena has the sole rights to supplying it. On to the Skysteel Manufactory, outside of their already available artillery, munitions, and manpower, I fail to see how they might have come up with any significant innovations for the Alliance in the absurdly short time between the end of the Dragonsong War and Operation Rhalgr's Beacon.

I blame the time bubble. Due to that, Skysteel Manufactory will forever be just on the cusp of providing Ironworks designs to the masses, while never actually doing so.

Also I haven't done the Sky Pirates raids, so I don't know if their manacutters are armed.

[Enkidoh]

It wasn't a dreadnought, it was an assault craft. Far smaller and presumably less armed/armored. Nor was it only the one cannon or "a couple of hits". There are three or four cannons in the area, and while I don't remember the exact amount, it takes somewhere around 5-7 shots before the assault craft's hull integrity is compromised, with another two after that to ground it.

'Dreadnought' seems to be a catch-all term used for all Garlean warships, so it's still appropriate to use regardless of the actual design (after all, the real-world term comes from HMS Dreadnought, the revolutionary warship design of the British Royal Navy that precipitated the very idea of a modern heavily armed and armoured battleship to the point all battleship designs that followed were called 'Dreadnoughts').

You stated this in an earlier post, but combing over quests that Drest is involved in with Garland Tools Database shows no evidence to support your statement. Drest was part of a Garlean scout unit which was ambushed by Maelstrom forces in heavy rain, but at no point does he state that "his" juggernaut was shot down by Maelstrom cannons.

He stated he was "shot down by the Maelstrom", and even though I concede he did not specifically state it was a cannon that laid his craft low, come on, to say otherwise is just splitting hairs, a pistol shot is not going to lay a Juggernaut low, only heavy firepower like the cannons on the Maelstrom's warships could do the job.

A quest in Mor Dhona shows that the Garleans use armor plating made of cermet in their airship hulls. Cermet in the real world is a composite material composed of ceramic and metallic materials. In more relevant terms, it's basically used for ceramic armor, provided that SE intended the parallel. Ceramic armor's used for things like tanks, other armored vehicles, and personal armor, and its effectiveness as vehicle armor is such that "not a single British Army Challenger tank was lost to enemy tank fire during Desert Storm". So it's unlikely that Eorzean artillery would do anything more than dent the hull unless their munitions are far more advanced than they have any right to be.

That is a really interesting point about cermet which I admit I was not aware of (it's real world existence) - I took it to be yet another FFXI reference as cermet is a plot point in FFXI (it's an exotic material referred to by npcs as resembling 'eggshells' that the ancient Zilart civilization manufactured and built most of their structures from, such as the teleport Crags and the Crystal Line, and that it has the property of being able to conduct and channel crystal energy - FFXI's version of aether - and that the present day Republic of Bastok had apparently discovered how to produce it, given that there was a location in the Bastok Metalworks called the Cermet Refinery), which as FFXIV takes a lot of references and ideas from, it would have made sense.

Either way, the Empire being able to manufacture such a material would not be surprising, given that the materials that their soldiers' uniforms are made from appears to be synthetic and/or exotic (and which Eorzeans are incapable of manufacturing themselves). But that does not mean they're indestructible (if that was the case their troops would be literally invincible!) - when we have to source some Garlean uniforms in order to sneak into Castrum Centri we end up badly tearing them when we 'relieve them' from their former owners, the fact mere sword/spear/axe blows/arrow shots/fist hits/magic spells can damage them all but shows that their materials are not as hard wearing as they seem.

Anyway, thanks again for that info about cermet.

Another earlier post from you, but aside from it being a CGI cutscene with Cutscene Power to the Max, the spells used don't look in any way to be "mere" fire and thunder spells. The spells used are very obviously powerful with lengthy cast times (15 seconds for the BLM's second fire spell).

Again you are taking everything at face value. Yes cutscenes do often throw actual gameplay functionality to the wind, but the point is, it shows magic can be more than a match for Garlean technology (I mean, back up: why else did Garlemald develop magitek in the first place? They couldn't use magic!) That doesn't mean magitek is superior to magic after all, it just means they can fight on equal terms.

I'm sorry if it seemed like I was having a go at you as I'm not, it's just that it's pretty clear that despite their bluster the Garlean Empire's supposed superiority came from more from an element of surprise and scheming behind the scenes (which is how Ala Mhigo fell, Gaius string-pulled the Ala Mhigan people to tear their nation apart from within - he did not merely fly in with guns blazing) and relied on a fear of their advanced technological warfare and expanded army (filled with draftees from conquered nations) to browbeat nations into submission. But like all bullies, once their bluff is called, once resisted, they crumble.

[YianKutku]

I'm sorry if it seemed like I was having a go at you as I'm not, it's just that it's pretty clear that despite their bluster the Garlean Empire's supposed superiority came from more from an element of surprise and scheming behind the scenes (which is how Ala Mhigo fell, Gaius string-pulled the Ala Mhigan people to tear their nation apart from within - he did not merely fly in with guns blazing) and relied on a fear of their advanced technological warfare and expanded army (filled with draftees from conquered nations) to browbeat nations into submission. But like all bullies, once their bluff is called, once resisted, they crumble.

I think it's important to keep in mind that the Garlean Empire does not rely "more on" either strength or subterfuge. It relies on what is needed to win, whatever that may be. (Note that I mean the overall Empire, rather than one-off madmen like Zenos or Nael.)

Ala Mhigo was conquered through subterfuge, with Gaius stirring dissent and unrest in order to minimize losses on his side. Dalmasca was conquered by brute strength, with Garlean airships bombarding the defenses with impunity until the city fell. Doma might have been a mix of both when it was conquered, and definitely both when the uprising was crushed: the XIIth Legion provided the military might, while collaborators and double agents provided the spycraft. (I don't remember when Yotsuyu betrayed the Domans; I think it was during the uprising? I know the Ninja Job quests deal with betrayal from within regarding the original fall of Doma.)

So it's equally inaccurate to say that Garlemald relies on scheming, or that Garlemald relies on brute force. It all depends on the situation, as well as the individual commanders.