National Leadership in Stormblood and Heavensward

[Vexander]

I need to go reread the dialogue from that quest when I can, but I thought the reason why Unu managed to unravel Urianger's wards was because he did so from inside them?

https://youtu.be/JAZ-zY-VM5k?t=941

15:41 if the time did not correctly come across.

Urianger's words are that only one with an otherworldly gift could have so swiftly dissolved his ward.

[Mysterysword]

https://youtu.be/JAZ-zY-VM5k?t=941

15:41 if the time did not correctly come across.

Urianger's words are that only one with an otherworldly gift could have so swiftly dissolved his ward.

That line, in hindsight, sounded to me like a reference to the fact that Unu comes from another world. Nonetheless, if it was his Echo, it could just be his unique manifestation of it (though 'taking down wards' sounds like a really specific and useless superpower). Or it could also have been, very simply, that Unu is a child prodigy of a mage from the Void.

I'm trying to remember if the WoL ever did this, and the only times I can recall are in dungeons, and it's not made clear if it really was the Echo that allowed us to take down those wards or if it was just us murdering everything in our path.

Anyway, like I said, the Garleans had means of nullifying Sharlayan's defences before they ever developed the Resonance, so there's no reason for them to think they would need it for this. After all, why shelve what works?

[Vexander]

That line, in hindsight, sounded to me like a reference to the fact that Unu comes from another world. Nonetheless, if it was his Echo, it could just be his unique manifestation of it (though 'taking down wards' sounds like a really specific and useless superpower). Or it could also have been, very simply, that Unu is a child prodigy of a mage from the Void.

I'm trying to remember if the WoL ever did this, and the only times I can recall are in dungeons, and it's not made clear if it really was the Echo that allowed us to take down those wards or if it was just us murdering everything in our path.

Anyway, like I said, the Garleans had means of nullifying Sharlayan's defences before they ever developed the Resonance, so there's no reason for them to think they would need it for this. After all, why shelve what works?

When was the last time Garlemald nullified Sharlayan's defenses?

[Mysterysword]

When was the last time Garlemald nullified Sharlayan's defenses?

I said they had the means of doing so, not that they applied them yet.

Like I said: Ysayle and her followers infiltrating Ishgard to take down the wards from the inside. The Garleans could probably do that just as easily with Sharlayan.

As for collaborators, they've had Laurentius in Gridania, Elaine Roaille in Ul'dah, Yotsuya in Doma, and countless other spies disguised as adventurers, as mentioned in the quests where we infiltrate Castrum Centri. Hell, Lucia is a pureblooded Garlean, wholly incapable of using magic, who was still able to infiltrate Ishgard, and so good at espionage that she became Aymeric's second-in-command and went completely undetected until she willingly told Aymeric about herself.

If the Garleans had more spies of Lucia's calibre that they deployed elsewhere, they wouldn't need the Resonant to get past those defences.

[YianKutku]

If the Garleans had more spies of Lucia's calibre that they deployed elsewhere, they wouldn't need the Resonant to get past those defences.

Based on Lucia's title of "goe", she's a Primus Frumentarius according to the lorebook: senior intelligence officer, commanding other intelligence assets. Which does bring up the question of what happened to the assets under her command when she defected, or if she was simply sent in solo.

I'm still surprised that Lucia managed to be undetected for so long despite both having the Garlean third eye (she'd have to wear something over it at all times?) and the Garlean height. I don't even know if her being Garlean is common knowledge in Ishgard, after her defection. It's implied that it's still a secret, but on the other hand in Stormblood Lucia talks about instructing Ishgardian troops in whatever Garlean tactics and counters she still remembers.

Come to think of it, how did Cid manage to hide his Garlean ancestry for five years since the Calamity? While he's uncommonly short for a Garlean (and thus being average Midlander height), that third eye should have been a giveaway, goggles or not. Has he not woken up in the morning or after a bath and looked into a mirror and gone "hang on, that's odd..."

[Mysterysword]

snip

Well, presumably Lucia still had her material assets with her after she defected (see: Magitek Armour), and as for blending in, she might have pretended to be a half-breed, like Hilda. Which would explain why she worked for Aymeric in the first place, since he would be sympathetic to that story.

As for hiding her third eye, if she didn't have anything to cover it (a helm isn't all that uncommon for a knight anyway), there's always the option of really good makeup.

[FJerome]

As for hiding her third eye, if she didn't have anything to cover it (a helm isn't all that uncommon for a knight anyway), there's always the option of really good makeup.

I thought the Garlean Third Eye really was an actual eye? Wouldn't that be rather painful?

[YianKutku]

Well, presumably Lucia still had her material assets with her after she defected (see: Magitek Armour)

Which raises even more questions, like what manual of engagement would provide a deep cover operative with, as standard equipment, a fully operational suit of Magitek Armour.

We can't even handwave it as captured armour, because at that point in time Ishgard was still stoutly ignoring the Empire, and focusing on the war with the Dravanians. So Lucia managed to bring a suit of Magitek Armour with her through her infiltration and defection, and mobilize it at short notice to rescue us.

Did she somehow pass it off as a peculiarly-shaped Starlight Celebration prop or something.

[Vexander]

I said they had the means of doing so, not that they applied them yet.

How do you know they have the means if they've never used them? If they had the means, wouldn't they have just gotten past Urianger's barrier to get the Allagan Technology they wanted on Azys Lla?

[Mysterysword]

How do you know they have the means if they've never used them? If they had the means, wouldn't they have just gotten past Urianger's barrier to get the Allagan Technology they wanted on Azys Lla?

I spent the next 3 paragraphs after that sentence specifically explaining how Ysayle managed to infiltrate and take down Ishgard's wards. Then I mentioned that Garlemald managed to plant a deep-cover operative, in the form of Lucia, in Ishgard. If Lucia had remained loyal, she could very likely have done some major damage to Ishgard's wards as well. They could then apply that same method to Sharlayan's wards.

As for why they didn't apply these methods to Urianger's wards, it's not like they had the time to infiltrate the Scions and get Urianger to take it down from the inside.