National Leadership in Stormblood and Heavensward

[Vexander]

I find it hilarious how much of a non-factor Fordola's Resonance was. After one fight, Santa-Urianger showed up to give us yet another doodad to completely shut her down.

Granted, there seem to be different levels of Resonant, but Zenos probably got the highest level possible, given his position. If that's the case, then we can probably defeat any other Resonant we come across, since what made Zenos truly dangerous was when he jacked Shinryu for himself. Surely we won't be stupid enough to allow any other super primals to be summoned?

All that aside, it seems that the main aim of creating Resonant would be to ultimately give the Garleans the power to control primals. Which is... probably why we have never seen any Garleans with the Echo, ever.

Anyway, since the Sharlayans don't seem to have a habit of summoning primals to fight for them, the Resonant would probably be useless against them. Especially if a simple burst of aether would knock the average Resonant down for the count.

Well, my thoughts were more along the lines of the Warring Triad quests. The barrier Urianger created, that Sharlayan Archmages researched, that froze the Garleans in their tracks because they couldn't get passed it. Unukalhai brought it down within seconds because he had the Echo. Somehow, the Echo let him do that. If Sharlayan is using a similar barrier or barriers, and they hold that same weakness, then that opens them up for attack by Garlemald. I just think its a distinct possibility that one of the reasons Garlemald never targeted Sharlayan was that it couldn't, that the barriers literally made it impossible to land troops and transport magitech war machines. But if such a protection could be brought low, what is there left to stop Garlemald from conquering Sharlayan? As much as Garlemald might fear the magical nation of scholars, they have GOT to be salivating at the idea of taking all of that knowledge and information and adapting it to their magitech.

I mean, when you get to it, Garlemald feels like the Allagan Empire without the magic, but with the technology. By contrast, Sharlayan seems like it'd have the kind of magical power and knowledge that Allag had. Combine the two and the Garleans could very well advance their magitech to Allagan levels in a handful of years.

[Mysterysword]

Unukalhai brought it down within seconds because he had the Echo.

I need to go reread the dialogue from that quest when I can, but I thought the reason why Unu managed to unravel Urianger's wards was because he did so from inside them? Presumably, Urianger specifically keyed the ward to allow the Scions in, while keeping the Garleans out, probably identifying us via aetheric signature or something, so Unu simply went in and took them down instead of having to brute force it from the outside like the Garleans. In short, it didn't seem to me that the Echo had anything to do with that.

If the Garleans wanted to take down the Sharlayan protections, they probably have the means to do so already, without the Resonant: Simply bribe whoever's in charge of manning those wards, or infiltrate their guard force, like what Ysayle did to Ishgard's wards. They've done similar things countless times in the past, so there's no real need for them to change their modus operandi now.

If Zenos's Resonance was superior, why were we able to hit him at all, particularly given that we were NOT using the doodad during his fight?

1. I don't think he was using his Resonance at all during his fight in Ala Mhigo. 2. We fought him 4 to 1, rather than 1 to 1 with Fordola. 3. The thingamabob becomes completely useless in the hands of someone who knows what it's going to do. Makes me wonder why Urianger would tell us how it works after one fight with it.

It's not too farfetched to assume that the Resonance takes different forms in different people, since the Echo works the same (except that our Mary-Sue WoL asses have all forms of the Echo active). But I still want to cling to the idea that we weren't seeing different forms of the Resonance in Fordola and Zenos, so much as we were seeing different levels of usage.

[Vexander]

I need to go reread the dialogue from that quest when I can, but I thought the reason why Unu managed to unravel Urianger's wards was because he did so from inside them?

https://youtu.be/JAZ-zY-VM5k?t=941

15:41 if the time did not correctly come across.

Urianger's words are that only one with an otherworldly gift could have so swiftly dissolved his ward.

[Mysterysword]

https://youtu.be/JAZ-zY-VM5k?t=941

15:41 if the time did not correctly come across.

Urianger's words are that only one with an otherworldly gift could have so swiftly dissolved his ward.

That line, in hindsight, sounded to me like a reference to the fact that Unu comes from another world. Nonetheless, if it was his Echo, it could just be his unique manifestation of it (though 'taking down wards' sounds like a really specific and useless superpower). Or it could also have been, very simply, that Unu is a child prodigy of a mage from the Void.

I'm trying to remember if the WoL ever did this, and the only times I can recall are in dungeons, and it's not made clear if it really was the Echo that allowed us to take down those wards or if it was just us murdering everything in our path.

Anyway, like I said, the Garleans had means of nullifying Sharlayan's defences before they ever developed the Resonance, so there's no reason for them to think they would need it for this. After all, why shelve what works?

[Vexander]

That line, in hindsight, sounded to me like a reference to the fact that Unu comes from another world. Nonetheless, if it was his Echo, it could just be his unique manifestation of it (though 'taking down wards' sounds like a really specific and useless superpower). Or it could also have been, very simply, that Unu is a child prodigy of a mage from the Void.

I'm trying to remember if the WoL ever did this, and the only times I can recall are in dungeons, and it's not made clear if it really was the Echo that allowed us to take down those wards or if it was just us murdering everything in our path.

Anyway, like I said, the Garleans had means of nullifying Sharlayan's defences before they ever developed the Resonance, so there's no reason for them to think they would need it for this. After all, why shelve what works?

When was the last time Garlemald nullified Sharlayan's defenses?

[Mysterysword]

When was the last time Garlemald nullified Sharlayan's defenses?

I said they had the means of doing so, not that they applied them yet.

Like I said: Ysayle and her followers infiltrating Ishgard to take down the wards from the inside. The Garleans could probably do that just as easily with Sharlayan.

As for collaborators, they've had Laurentius in Gridania, Elaine Roaille in Ul'dah, Yotsuya in Doma, and countless other spies disguised as adventurers, as mentioned in the quests where we infiltrate Castrum Centri. Hell, Lucia is a pureblooded Garlean, wholly incapable of using magic, who was still able to infiltrate Ishgard, and so good at espionage that she became Aymeric's second-in-command and went completely undetected until she willingly told Aymeric about herself.

If the Garleans had more spies of Lucia's calibre that they deployed elsewhere, they wouldn't need the Resonant to get past those defences.

[YianKutku]

If the Garleans had more spies of Lucia's calibre that they deployed elsewhere, they wouldn't need the Resonant to get past those defences.

Based on Lucia's title of "goe", she's a Primus Frumentarius according to the lorebook: senior intelligence officer, commanding other intelligence assets. Which does bring up the question of what happened to the assets under her command when she defected, or if she was simply sent in solo.

I'm still surprised that Lucia managed to be undetected for so long despite both having the Garlean third eye (she'd have to wear something over it at all times?) and the Garlean height. I don't even know if her being Garlean is common knowledge in Ishgard, after her defection. It's implied that it's still a secret, but on the other hand in Stormblood Lucia talks about instructing Ishgardian troops in whatever Garlean tactics and counters she still remembers.

Come to think of it, how did Cid manage to hide his Garlean ancestry for five years since the Calamity? While he's uncommonly short for a Garlean (and thus being average Midlander height), that third eye should have been a giveaway, goggles or not. Has he not woken up in the morning or after a bath and looked into a mirror and gone "hang on, that's odd..."

[Vexander]

I said they had the means of doing so, not that they applied them yet.

How do you know they have the means if they've never used them? If they had the means, wouldn't they have just gotten past Urianger's barrier to get the Allagan Technology they wanted on Azys Lla?