Dear Healers who don't DPS

[Vyriah]

So where is the line? Do we play to the best intetests of our party and mitigate through shields and DPS or let the damage roll in just because we have the potency to heal it anyways?

Yeah right, use those SCH shields in dungeon, they're really so great and mana is for the lazy people anyway.
I'm not sure if can not make point harder than that.

Trying to be "moderate" and all is cool, but what you're doing is monitoring players and asking them to play how you want them to play because they would be lazy, wich is certainly that exact attitude SE want out of its game when they talk about healer not DPSing. And when its come to the point where you're saying "SCH should prevent damage instead of healing them because they can" while this is certainly the worst way of playing it possible currently, we're not talking about the game anymore. We're talking about you wanting to clear dungeon faster and that's your buisness, not every else's.

Actually, playing efficiently is something that you aim yourself, not something you do because some guy you don't know wants you to do it. If you don't want to play with those random guys that don't play like you want to, don't use the DF. There's FC, there's friendlist, there's PF. Get a party of like minded player and play with them. Or is suddenly "using everything available" not a matter anymore ?

[MoroMurasaki]

snipped for length

I enjoy how you only chose to address my closing statement instead of contesting my actual evidence - would my party take less damage with me DPSing or not? I mean we both know the answer you just don't have a rebuttal to that part. In terms of your "make a pf or play with your FC" dig - no. Not that I don't do those things but they are for when you are looking for something outside the norm/specific, if anything healers who don't want to DPS should do that. Maybe they can even offer something to the players who join in exchange for carrying them.

All this silly "you want to control how peple play" argument is also just garbage because you have no idea what I want. I want people to stop being lazy and use their whole kit! Stop giving the rest of us healers bad press because you are standing there doing nothing while your party does the heavy lifting. I want them to do this not because I say so but because they take their heads out of the sand for once and recognize that they are literally a liability in a party.

Playing tanks and DPS now is driving home a point that I have suspected for the past year; healers who don't DPS rarely heal well anyways. It's not a matter of them needing all that time to do an amazing job at their primary function because they tend to be fumbling even that. I had a WHM in Sirensong that I posted about in the "Tales from the Duty Finder" thread in the past few days who not only never applied DoTs but was also forcing the PLD and RDM to heal themselves/the party. These are the healers I see not DPSing. Maybe you are the one shining example of a healer who doesn't DPS but heals well, I don't know.

Also in terms of SCH maybe you know more than I do currently but I do know the MP cost on Adlo got jacked way up so why would you want to prolong a fight when you could run into MP issues when you or the tank run out of cooldowns? That "heal forever" mentality might be okay on WHM but I don't think SCH is in the same place. By using your (comparatively cheaper) DPS abilities how many heal casts are you saving? Or did you just want to Physic for 25 minutes straight through a dungeon?

This has nothing to do with wanting a faster clear on my part. I am annoyed with lazy healers that just stand around because I personally love healing and don't want to have other players seeing us in a negative light. Most people do want a comparatively faster dungeon as well and if I can help give them that then awesome.

At this point the side of the debate that is for healer DPS has presented a ton of reasons why it should be expected but I challenge you guys to come up with something now. None of this stupid "you dont pay my sub" crap - real reasons.

I'll wait.

[Vyriah]

Oh? And what did I do to get this ireful response from you?

That was just joke, sorry.

[Miste]

That was just joke, sorry.

Your jokes aren't funny and honestly if you cannot be civil and respectful by not resorting to swearing, thinly veiled insults, and calling people stupid etc in your posts it would be preferable if you see yourself out.

If you don't want to play with those random guys that don't play like you want to, don't use the DF. There's FC, there's friendlist, there's PF. Get a party of like minded player and play with them.

By the way you cannot use ^this argument because it is hypocritical. If you as a healer do not want to end up with random players who may request you to DPS then you don't need to use DF. You can use FC, friendlist and PF as well.

In DF you have to compromise sometimes but you are basically saying "some people have to compromise", but "healers are exempt from having to compromise". It isn't really equal and fair treatment.

[Vyriah]

Your jokes aren't funny and honestly if you cannot be civil and respectful by not resorting to swearing and thinly veiled insults in your posts it would be preferable if you see yourself out.

Oh ?
So there's 34 pages of people calling everyone lazy and incompetent and you're fine with it, but when when I ironically do it, it's not fine anymore ? I don't remember seeing such vivid reaction for the post I quote while it was actually aggressive.

By the way you cannot use ^this argument because it is hypocritical. If you as a healer do not want to end up with random players who may request you to DPS then you don't need to use DF. You can use FC, friendlist and PF as well.

In DF you have to compromise sometimes but you are basically saying "some people have to compromise", but "healers are exempt from having to compromise". It isn't really equal and fair treatment.

I'm doing arround 2k DPS with my SCH, what are you talking about ?

Also, what you're saying makes no sense. First because it's exactly what a lot of player tend to do, and that's why there's now healer bonus on some random dungeon queue. Second because playing as you want and forcing to play as you want are something completly different. All this thread isn't about "how can I ask a healer I don't know to DPS more in dungeon" it's all about "how healer that don't do DPS is bad, and lazy, and incompetent and I should be able to kick them from my parties without risking being accused of vote kick abuse". But you're abusing vote kick abuse, and you're making sophistic speeches about how people should do what you want them to do.

Because, let's be honest, there won't be no need to write 30 pages about it if it was something that the game intend you to do. FF XIV is a theme parc, that's how it was intended.
And the only issue is that you want faster dungeon.

[Miste]

Oh ?
So there's 34 pages of people calling everyone lazy and incompetent and you're fine with it, but when when I ironically do it, it's not fine anymore ? I don't remember seeing such vivid reaction for the post I quote while it was actually aggressive.

I don't care about the other 34 pages nor did I read all of it. I happen to read your last post though and the only point I was making is that you started swearing and calling people stupid. If you notice the post you quoted from Moro did neither of those things. I never said her post was perfectly nice, but there is a difference between that and swearing at people and calling them stupid etc.

Also Ghishlain didn't do anything to deserve that bad joke :/
You made fun of them for not spelling Charybdis correctly; you claim it was a joke, but sorry it wasn't funny and after your tirade of swearing and calling people stupid all it did was look really rude just like the rest of your post.

I'm doing arround 2k DPS with my SCH, what are you talking about ?

I never said you don't DPS on healer. I was only talking about the statement you made being hypocritical. Not talking about you or how you play at all.

Also, what you're saying makes no sense. First because it's exactly what a lot of player tend to do, and that's why there's now healer bonus on some random dungeon queue. Second because playing as you want and forcing to play as you want are something completly different. All this thread isn't about "how can I ask a healer I don't know to DPS more in dungeon" it's all about "how healer that don't do DPS is bad, and lazy, and incompetent and I should be able to kick them from my parties without risking being accused of vote kick abuse". But you're abusing vote kick abuse, and you're making sophistic speeches about how people should do what you want them to do.

It does make sense, you just don't understand what I am saying I guess.

The argument I pointed out that you tried to use is hypocritical. That's pretty much the extent of it. It isn't about forcing anyone to do anything it is simply that you might get in a group that is unwilling to accept your preferred playstyle. So you've misunderstood.

You cannot have expectations in DF which works on both sides of this argument. People cannot expect the healer they get will always do DPS, BUT people also cannot expect to go into a DF on healer and always get people that are OKAY with a healer not DPSing at all.

This is what I meant about the argument you were using being hypocritical. Both sides cannot have expectations, that includes everyone. If you have expectations that you absolutely cannot compromise on and you do not wish to ever be vote kicked out of a group for not compromising then you have to use PF/FC/Friends no matter which side of the argument you happen to be on.

in DF majority rules and if the majority is okay to vote kick someone out for "different playstyles" then that is already been told by SE that it is a valid reason to kick and is therefore not vote kick abuse.

For example if my preferred tanking playstyle was to pull everything I can pull all the time even if the healer is really stressing and struggling and it isn't fun for them...and the rest of the group was in agreement with the healer that I need to slow down but I refuse then they can kick me with majority vote.

I cannot get mad over this vote kick because I refused to compromise when the rest of the group didn't want me to play a certain way and if I 100% NEED to play the way I want or I will be not happy or get mad if I get vote kicked then I need to get friends or PF to get people who want me to tank that way.

Honestly in this game if you go in to DF willing to put effort into compromising and effort into playing the game to best of your ability to help your team then you notice you won't really get vote kicked much, if at all.

[Vyriah]

You also made fun of someone for not spelling Charybdis correctly; you claim it was a joke, but sorry it wasn't funny and after your tirade of swearing and calling people stupid all it did was look really rude just like the rest of your post.

Uh ? I was making fun of people like OP and such that call people lazy and incompetent every two post or something, not the post I quoted. I though it was pretty obvious I completly against calling people names for their performance in video game, or even spelling for that matter (in case you didn't notice, i'm master degree on typos).
Charybdis is a greek sea monster that has been rumored since ancient times to make everyone misspell its name at the first read. I'm not mocking any one on this, but once you know that it's something outside of the game it's easier to remember it.


But eh, if you're going on that field, isn't hypocrisy noticing just now that someone accused someone of being lazy while it's written in the very first post of the topic ? So, because it's not coming from the crowd shouting at your back, it's suddely revolting and you have to point it out ? I don't see where you're trying to tone down this, outside of saying "different playstyle" as a figure of speech to say "lazy healers". You're still advocating kicking them out of you're party. also, it's now really hard to hide that it's the only point of this thread by now, everynow it's illegitimate no matter how hard you try to convice yourselves and your building rhetoric and sophistics to justify it anyway. You don't do 35 pages of text about something obvious.

The reason I answer to what you're saying, and what was said before, it's because you're all using social stereotypes to make your point. More precisely, the social stereotypes about poverty (lazy and incompetent). Add to that the insane focus on efficiency and kick people out of the structure if they don't meet the standard and it's easy to see that people saying the kind of thing you say assimilate to game as a job. What you're talking about in that message is that would be a unspoken contract between players to play in a precise way, but that's not the case. that would be righter if we were talking about PF, when there's one person stating conditions and the one joining them should agree to them. But one for people are assembled at random, there's no such thing and what you want is what you want.
If you want High DPS, do high DPS. I you want to only do heal, you only heal. But you can't force that guy next to you to do what you want to do. You're convinced that they should do something else ? Trying telling them about it. Mostly, they'll find you annoying because that's how it looks to give random advices to strangers. If you can make a point, maybe some one is gonna listen to what you say and that's it ? There's no discussion about this actually.
But even better than having expectation out of other player, try to let them learn. Because learning the game is playing the game.

tl;dr leave people be.