Dropping Grit

[RLofOBFL]

Two DA PS combos will guarantee you being top in any fight. I personally just use one and feel it out from there, but it always lasts unless the fight is excessively long like Omega.

[MauvaisOeil]

Never Dark Arts Power Slash. It's a pitiful one point modifier increase, and that's without factoring in the weaker damage. You are far better off turning Grit back on temporarily and doing either a DA + Souleater combo or a full Power Slash comboing, then dropping out again. This gives you a significantly higher lead so you won't have to Power Slash again for a while.

A good rule of thumb with PUGs, OP. If you have competent DPS, particularly a Samurai, Black Mage or Red Mage, start with Unmend and two Power Slash combos before dropping Grit. That should give you a solid lead through their respective "burst" phases. This assumes your co-tank isn't using Shrik or you don't have a Ninja.

Since Stormblood, DA PS is twice the threat of PS itself.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Since Stormblood, DA PS is twice the threat of PS itself.

I went back and checked. Seems like it was 4.01; the whole enmity update? Either way, I deleted that since it's wrong now.

[MauvaisOeil]

I went back and checked. Seems like it was 4.01; the whole enmity update? Either way, I deleted that since it's wrong now.

Can't tell precisely but I think it's an addition of the stormblood update. Nothing sure here, however it's usually enough for me to hold threat with pugs with no diversion, shadewalker or enmity generation from others.

[shao32]

as a MT grit depends of 2 things, emity and healer skill, ppl tend to speak about tank out tank stance on boss like you will always have a perfectly AST/SCH how shield you perfectly and a WHM/AST how manage he regens perfectly, thats false, more with pugs, grit offer much more to the team when you healer skill is unknow or just moderate, accidents deaths on tanks tend to be a lot much more punishing even more with tank swap mechanics how includes debuffs on youcan make you OT insta die in the next tankbuster.

but in the case you have 2 healers how know they job and work together well then no doubt get the emity lead and drop it, as a OT there is no excuse to stay in grit.

in the end depends more of you teammates.

[Leximus]

Just out of curiosity though, those tanking in pug setting, do you guys just go for it? I.E drop grit after opener and if you die, you just accept it and stay in tank stance?

[RLofOBFL]

Just out of curiosity though, those tanking in pug setting, do you guys just go for it? I.E drop grit after opener and if you die, you just accept it and stay in tank stance?

The issue with going out of tank stance is not you dying(unless you don't use CDs at important moments), it's you losing aggro to dps. But yes if the healers are struggling for some reason and I die I usually cut my loses and stay tank stance, but I have yet to see a moment like this. If it's savage though, for pugs, I am more to remaining in tank stance until I can confirm the healers can keep me up.

[SyzzleSpark]

Can't tell precisely but I think it's an additionof the stormblood update. Nothing sure here, however it's usually enough for me to hold threat with pugs with no diversion, shadewalker or enmity generation from others.

This change was made in the initial 4.0 release patch, and its honestly very interesting, and a design decision that a lot of mathematical care and precision went into (unlike a lot of the rest of our kit, sadly).

To be precise, Power Slash has a 5.5x modifier and DA Power Slash is an 11x modifier, essentially granting you a second combo bonus Power Slash in enmity.

Not only is this really good snap hate, but it actually is DPS efficient in Grit, as you get the enmity of almost 2 Power Slash combos in 1, and if the next combo is a SE combo, you get the mana back and a 30 potency increase (before the Grit penalty) from DAing it and thus saving yourself an extra Power Slash. BUT. If you DAPS and then immediately drop Grit, things get interesting:

DAPS+SE in Grit
13284 threat potency
1096 damage potency
9480 mana

2 non-DA PS in Grit
13878 threat potency
1072 damage potency
9480 mana (+/-0 mana and +594 threat for a 24 potency loss)

DAPS w/grit+ SE out of Grit
12094 threat potency
1236 damage potency
8280 mana (-1200 mana and -1190 threat for an increase of oh my goodness would you look at that, *140* potency... math is fun. +164 potency if compared to 2PS.)

Ergo a DA spent on Power Slash, assuming you drop Grit immediately afterwards, is a gain of at least 140 potency just like DA almost everywhere else. Pretty neat. Thus, using DA on Power Slash and immediately dropping Grit afterwards is DPS optimal (its almost like it was designed for us to drop Grit... i-n-t-e-r-e-s-t-i-n-g...), but, if you are in a situation where you must stay in Grit, its kind of a waste, and you definitely should never DAPS out of Grit, because it is only when starting in Grit and then leaving Grit that you can see a potency gain from it. However, if you are aiming to not be in Grit at all not even in your opener, you may or may not want to DAPS anyway:

4 PS combos = 10280 threat potency, 2680 damage potency, 9480 mana
2 DAPS + 2 PS = 13580 threat potency, 2680 damage potency, 4680 mana, 2400 potency factoring in mana loss
2 DAPS + 2 SE = 9840 threat potency, 2740 damage potency, 7080 mana, 2600 potency factoring in mana loss
2 DAPS + 1 PS + 1 SE = 11710 threat potency, 2710 damage potency, 5880 mana, 2500 potency factoring in mana loss
1 DAPS + 2 PS + 1 SE = 10060 threat potency, 2710 damage potency, 8280 mana, 2640 potency factoring in mana loss
1 DAPS + 1 PS + 2 SE = 8190 threat potency, 2740 damage potency, 9480 mana

Honestly a single DAPS + shadewalker is probably enough to ensure that you get your opener off without losing hate, and then you can do some maintenance PS combos once raid buffs have fallen off. However if you find that you can get away with regular PS out of Grit my guess is this is optimal. Outside of Grit, the fewer PS you use and the fewer of those PS you DA the better, but if you ever PS in Grit, DA ultimately maximizes its efficiency assuming you're planning on leaving Grit again soon. The ultimate goal and design of DA PS is for it to buy you 3 extra GCDs out of your tank stance, and it succeeds at this, if my math is correct (because if those 3 extra GCDs are a SE combo and thus 700 potency, you're gaining 20% on that potency, and 20% of 700 is 140, the baseline increase of DA). But if you're never in Grit to begin with, I'd say the 3.x rules hold true.

[Leximus]

Wow, this is nice info. I've already tried DAPS opener into dropping grit in 4 man and it works well. It's just that I'm so used to tank stance that my mistakes become very obvious when dropping grit and it just shows how crappy my tanking is. For now, I'm going to concentrate on dropping grit for 4 man bosses first If I can't burn my CD properly in 4 man, pretty sure it's gonna be a disaster in 8 man lol.

[Janhyua]

As a samurai I have a request to all my MT out there...

1. Please don't die

2. If you are good at not dying then feel free to drop grid

3. Please don't lose aggro or else I have to be the samurai tank

4. Repeat step 1