Dropping Grit

[Leximus]

Hey fellow tankers, I need advice on dropping tank stance. Specifically, dropping grit stance (I main DRK) in a 100% PUG environment.

I live a PUG life and have no static. I've tried researching about dropping tank stance and most of it are under optimal settings. My question is, do you drop tank stance in PUGs? I'm referring to all group content from 4 man to end game content. I've done a little trial and error on contents that I'm overgeared with, and I always have a hard time with aggro holding.

Example, in lakshimi EX, some OT will always stay in tank stance. This forces me to stay in tank stance as well. For others that don't, they provoke to stay in 2nd aggro list but if I drop tank stance, we're gonna ping-pong the boss left and right.

Before I move on, I would like to state that I'm looking to optimize my, and only mine, tanking abilities in PUG settings. I'm just looking to enjoy content and not waste time telling others what they should do. I can accept staying in tank stance.

For 4 man, it's easier to manage but I still lose aggro sometimes (especially RDM) if I open with only 1 PS before dropping Grit.

For now, for 4 man, this is my opener after trial and error.

UnMend > BP > HS > Salted Earth > SS > plunge > PS > DAC&S > full DA SE combo > Drop grit > HS > BW and take it from there.

Uses up the duration of BP, gain blood for delirium and burns mana for immediate use of BW after dropping grit. More importantly, it gains way more aggro than 1 PS. Also, it has the advantage of prolonging tank stance so DPS that let it rip without a care in the world, I can at least check the aggro and decide if I should stay in tank stance longer.

For 8 man, I also use the above opener, but fights last way longer and I find myself having to go back into grit due to aggro. I actually have higher DPS staying in tank stance all the way rather than going back into grit as it's rather awkward to go back into grit.

[Sarcatica]

Against competent DPS, you will lose aggro with just a PS combo. What you can do is to DAPS for starting, then you drop Grit and go full SE combo, if you still need aggro do top up with normal PS combo.

There are bound to be times where you have to do double/triple PS combo in Grit before going Gritless in some extreme cases.

[Katotsu]

Another thing to note is Shirk. While it doesn't help you as MT, if the OT has it there is no aggro problem with the OT. It's sadly undervalued and underused.

[MauvaisOeil]

Never Dark Arts Power Slash. It's a pitiful one point modifier increase, and that's without factoring in the weaker damage. You are far better off turning Grit back on temporarily and doing either a DA + Souleater combo or a full Power Slash comboing, then dropping out again. This gives you a significantly higher lead so you won't have to Power Slash again for a while.

A good rule of thumb with PUGs, OP. If you have competent DPS, particularly a Samurai, Black Mage or Red Mage, start with Unmend and two Power Slash combos before dropping Grit. That should give you a solid lead through their respective "burst" phases. This assumes your co-tank isn't using Shrik or you don't have a Ninja.

Since Stormblood, DA PS is twice the threat of PS itself.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Since Stormblood, DA PS is twice the threat of PS itself.

I went back and checked. Seems like it was 4.01; the whole enmity update? Either way, I deleted that since it's wrong now.

[MauvaisOeil]

I went back and checked. Seems like it was 4.01; the whole enmity update? Either way, I deleted that since it's wrong now.

Can't tell precisely but I think it's an addition of the stormblood update. Nothing sure here, however it's usually enough for me to hold threat with pugs with no diversion, shadewalker or enmity generation from others.

[Driavna]

If DPS use their agro reduction during CD usage you should be fine. But from my own experience, randoms DDs don't do that. However, good DDs are also rare so, in general, you will have an easy time staying out of tank stance if you build a good amount during at first.

As a Paladin what I do is: Shield Lob -> Rage of Alone combo weaving CoS and SW -> Goring Blade Combo -> Sword Oath and I never had to do another Rage of Alone combo ever during the whole fight.

[Brannigan]

Like others are saying, it's really going to depend on the quality of your PUGs. As paladin in 4 man bosses, I usually open with a tank stance Halone/oGCDs then just Sword Oath DPS. However, in a longer fight if one damage dealer is doing significantly higher DPS than the other, they can catch up. As for 8 man content, it's really on a case-by-case basis. Lakshmi and Neo Exdeath have their own special hate requirements, but other than that it generally depends on
-Do you have a Ninja?
-Are your DPS using their hate reduction skills?
-Do you have a Samurai or Monk? (they both have worse hate reduction than the other DPS)
-If you have a WHM, are they using hate reduction where appropriate? (AOE heals can mess you up on some things)
-Are you and the OT Shirking effectively?
For a PUG it might be safe to assume on the first pull that Ninjas won't shadewalker (and they DEFINITELY won't smoke bomb), Samurai and Monk aren't slotting Diversion, healers never look at the hate bar and overuse AOE heals, and the OT never shirks. In that case I just suck it up and use Shield Oath for a little longer than I'd like to and replace some RAs with Halone when I can fill in the MP gaps with Sheltron. That last part doesn't really apply to DRK, though.

p.s. always commend ninjas.

[LittleSparrow]

You are a tank.
Grit reduces damage taken, emnity aside.
How is this even a question?