Dear Healers who don't DPS

[LittleSparrow]

Healer dps is now a thing thanks to dev....

A healer who does zero to no dps is a enrage no question ask

Yoshi P has said that content is designed in a way in which healer DPS is not required at all. If you can't make the DPS checks that's on the DPS either not optimally DPSing or simply being undergeared.

That being said, I still think healers tossing in atleast a combust or an aero does no harm to healing at all, and I think they should dps if they can, but they should never prioritize it over healing.

[Taika]

Yoshi P has said that content is designed in a way in which healer DPS is not required at all. If you can't make the DPS checks that's on the DPS either not optimally DPSing or simply being undergeared.

Again, this is simply untrue, please stop spreading this misconception! Even Yoshi directly said that healer DPS is needed when the fights are added to the game:

Yoshida: Yes. Since all DPS jobs will be increasing up through level 60, it makes sense to have the white mage's DPS extend by a proportional amount as well. For development, such as with Bahamut's Coils, the development team assumes what the item level should be for general equipment on players when they clear a raid. They sum up the basic DPS for four DPS and tanks at that assumed item level and cut that by about 10-15% for the minimum clear DPS. Healer DPS is not taken into account when this is set.

Certainly for people who are at world's first level, their goal is to clear it at as low an item level as possible, lower than the one assumed during development. So if you look at the fight and figure out that if it's not numerically possible to clear with four DPS and tanks, you'll need to make up the gap with DPS from healers.

Source: https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/12...-Event-5-19%29

I've posted an example of current Savage DPS requirements before:

It's not a situation where anyone is joining the content under the recommended item level, the content is balanced for higher item level that is available for the players. So if you're joining Savage content as a healer, at any item level before overgearing/echo, your DPS contribution will be needed, no matter how good the rest of your party is. Because the DPS checks are set so high they are impossible to beat without healer DPS, it's also the healers' responsibility. And even if they wouldn't be (which might be the case with at least OS1 and OS2, which seem to be balanced lower than the raids have usually been), if you're leaving it for your DDs and tanks alone it means you're asking close to optimal maximum performance from them just so you yourself could perform far below the average of your optimal performance.

I do recommend you to check the party DPS required for these fights, then divide it between DDs and tanks alone, then check from logs how good you would ask your DDs and tanks to be to reach those numbers. For example, since OS4 apparently requires 24k party DPS, if your tanks do 6K combined and LBs do 700, it leaves 17,3K DPS for your DDs alone. That is 4325 DPS for each DD.

A PLD doing 3k DPS would currently rank 87%, a WAR 97%, and a DRK 92%. So your tanks would have to be in the top 3-13% of all the players for that job in the whole world.

For DDs, 4325 DPS would mean 98% for BRD, 97% for MCH, 95% for NIN, 94% for RDM, 93% for DRG, 77% for BLM and 75% for SMN. So for any of these jobs, they would have to be in up to the top 2% in their job. Of all the players in the world. (It would only require 56% for MNK and 31% for SAM though! )

Now tell me with a straight face that it's completely fine to expect that kind of performance level from your DDs and tanks (particularly if you don't happen to have PLD, MNK or SAM in your raid team), to literally expect them to be some of the very best players in the whole world, all 6 of your other party members, while you and your healing partner would take no responsibility whatsoever for DPS. Please tell me how it would be a reasonable expectation for the tanks and DDs and if they wouldn't somehow happen to succeed to be the world's best and wanted their healers to contibute, they would be "shifting the blame".

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I don't think you understand the concept that healers are only required i repeate required to use their healing kit. A healer only spaming regens should be called out but not a healer using their healing kit. Healer is the only job that Can do 2 roles and only 1 of those is Required.

That's fine, but I can assure you healing me on tank wouldn't be for healers feeling lazy. Whenever I notice a healer standing around who isn't new, I do mass pulls and drop tank stance almost immediately. You wanna only heal? You'll have a lot to heal, don't you worry.

[Maynardjames]

I'm a healer to heal. If I wanted to dps I will play dps. Enough said

[Taika]

I'm a healer to heal. If I wanted to dps I will play dps. Enough said

You are free to choose to refuse to use some of your really useful and effective abilities. In that case, just be honest about the fact that you're choosing to not be as helpful to your party as you could be, and that you are choosing to play your job inefficiently and badly. And don't be surpised if you're called out on this choice and are removed from groups that wish to see some effort and team play.

[Maeka]

@Taika:

Yoshida: Yes. Since all DPS jobs will be increasing up through level 60, it makes sense to have the white mage's DPS extend by a proportional amount as well. For development, such as with Bahamut's Coils, the development team assumes what the item level should be for general equipment on players when they clear a raid. They sum up the basic DPS for four DPS and tanks at that assumed item level and cut that by about 10-15% for the minimum clear DPS. Healer DPS is not taken into account when this is set.

Eh, you bolded the wrong part. Lemme try again for you:

Yoshida: Yes. Since all DPS jobs will be increasing up through level 60, it makes sense to have the white mage's DPS extend by a proportional amount as well. For development, such as with Bahamut's Coils, the development team assumes what the item level should be for general equipment on players when they clear a raid. They sum up the basic DPS for four DPS and tanks at that assumed item level and cut that by about 10-15% for the minimum clear DPS. Healer DPS is not taken into account when this is set.

So... if a raid drops i350 or whatever, they are going to take the possible DPS of a group of i350 players and then cut that by 10-15% and set that as minimum clear DPS.

Now, players are going in without full capping Creation (because it is mathematically impossible to have full Creation gear yet) so they are likely wearing a mix of 1-2 pieces of Creation and the rest are Omega/Verity/Extreme Primal gear. This means that yes, you are entering Savage with less-than-optimal gear and he said that if you do this, yes you will need healer DPS.

Try this again at full i330 and you will find that it should be possible (theoretically) to clear it with no (or very little) healer DPS.

But of course, nobody wants to wait to get full Creation. Oh no, they have to clear all 4 Omegas within the first week.

But why are we even talking about Savage Raids? This has nothing to do with random PUGs in stuff up to and through Expert and normal Omega, which does NOT need Healer DPS whatsoever.

Trying to use Savage as an example of what healers should be doing in normal stuff is just ridiculous. Not everybody is a tryhard world-first raider. Sorry, but we're not. Don't like it? Tough.

[Taika]

But of course, nobody wants to wait to get full Creation. Oh no, they have to clear all 4 Omegas within the first week.

My whole point was, if you want to do Savage now instead of waiting for many weeks or even months, you will need healer DPS, even if your DDs and tanks would be the best in the whole world. And that if your DDs and tanks would happen to be of average skill, you will require healer DPS for a long time after that (possibly even after all of you are in that full tome set). And lastly, that asking your DDs and tanks to push at least 85-90% of their optimal maximum performance just so that you and your healing partner could slack (= perform at way, way lower level of effectiveness than what you're asking from their DDs and tanks) is not reasonable.

But why are we even talking about Savage Raids?

Because you brought them up on the previous page and I was replying to you in my previous post?

Outside of Savage, healer DPS is not required to beat content, that's a fact. But that doesn't mean healers shouldn't (be asked to) DPS if they're able to do so (if they are familiar with content, no one is in any danger and they have plenty of MP). All players, no matter their job, should aim to be as useful to their party as possible in all content. For healers, after the healing requirements for the content are covered, the only way they can be useful is to do DPS. Their other options are doing nothing or overhealing, neither of which help their party in any way.

[ToasterMan]

Man I'm so glad I main SAM now so I don't have to deal with this crap anymore

[Cynfael]

Any argument against healers using their full kits that begins with something to the effect of "Yoshi-P said..." is at least 90% likely to be irrelevant.

The man does not gain and retain subscribers in a "theme park" MMO that is first and foremost casual-friendly by taking the official position that players should play better. Besides, imagine if he came out strongly in favor of healers not slacking; does anyone really think that would change player behavior to any significant degree? The bottom line is that the dev team sets the framework, and the players run with it.

Do I personally think that the healer has it so rough that it can't afford the "stress" of using its DPS skills? No, of course not; it's one of the easiest roles to play at a minimum effective level in most content. However, that's clearly not everyone's perception.

[FoxyAreku]

Healer does not mean pacifist.

I really don't know where this thought process came from. Certainly wasn't final fantasy, there's not a character in the series that exists *only* to heal people. If there was, they'd be considered completely useless.