Just realized something: FFXIV is a terrible DPS player's DREAM come true...

[BubblyBoar]

I've run into some 20 of exactly those kinds of people. (Sadly that's about equal to how many I've seen say "how about I'll play how I like and you can deal with it" or have threatened to try to ban anyone who asked to shape up.) I've also seen people seek friends out to parse them on a dummy or over a dungeon run (surprisingly often, they're worried less about their fixed rotation than their number sense and general priorities, so to speak, which a longer run may bring more insight towards) because either they can't get theirs to work or are on PS3/4. There certainly are those players who at present are without parsers but can nonetheless make use of them. They're no huge crowd, but they're not mythical creatures.

You seem to misunderstand what I said. I'm guessing you missed my ealier posts. Basically, those kinds of people are already seeking help. They didn't need to have a parser shoved in their face with actual numbers to want to improve. Someone told them they weren't doing great, so they got better. They didn't need the game literally telling them their exact numbers to get better. What we have now was enough. We know it's enough because you've literally just said so. There didn't need to be an in-game parser for that to happen. Likewise, I'm not denying the other type of person either. The one that doesn't want to improve and tells you to stuff it. An in-game parser isn't going to make them suddenly want to get better. Even if people like that actually see the number in front of their face, they won't improve. So again....these magical reasonable players that need to see actual parsing data in game and go "Oh, maybe I was bad, I'll be a good DPS now" don't exist. And the ones people claim to exist are trying already, without parsers in-game.

The only thing the parser in-game allows for is shoving your number into the face of people that don't care for them, good or bad.

[Shurrikhan]

Basically, those kinds of people are already seeking help.

Not always. I've many times had a friend inform someone who honestly thought that, say, Tornado Kicking at every possible occasion was good play, or didn't realize multi-DoTing was helpful for their Repertoire, and I've either been too engaged with healing, tanking, or otherwise making up for that lost DPS to notice. As soon as the friend has made any note of it, I've played enough of each to advise correction by typing between GCDs, but until then I wouldn't have figured to bother.

Or take someone who has a parser but is looking for advice. There it helps to see when their DPS isn't rising at expected rates (e.g. blowing Mage's too soon, not making use of multi-Flare, etc.). Those who know the class can estimate pretty clearly what is or is not being done by per-2s to per-3s rolling summaries, without having to watch their casts. That's one more useful tool, that also happens to be free (over sufficient samples) of misunderstanding.

The only thing the parser in-game allows for is shoving your number into the face of people that don't care for them, good or bad.

We're working under the assumption that the UI can't even be hidden? Otherwise, this is again not a change. For every person who'd be less afraid to reveal a number, there's another who no longer feels the need because everyone else has access to a parser.

Do I trust every player to be capable of following basic rules for interpretation (when you just screwed over the Monk's stacks, yes, his DPS will be lower relative to the duration of the fight; when you decide to chicken out of a whole pull after one of the DPS already popped CDs in preparation, yes, his DPS on the next will be reduced, and yes, gear makes a difference)? No. And I think there are plenty of opportunities to mitigate that, should SE put in a parser of its own. My personal preference as a performance index is a relative potency / second meter (preferably complete with battle log integration and sort and coverage analysis as you would find via FFlogs), because it nullifies internal DHit and Crit variance while taking all but a marginal contribution from secondary stats (unless thus adjusting the base) out of gear difference.

[Waliel]

As far as I recall the whole "parser" thing was "don't ask, don't tell" right? They aren't allowed though for sure.

They're not technically allowed, because they fall into the 3rd party program category. Other than that, Squenix doesn't care as long as you don't go yelling about it and know how to behave. Yoshi also knows the merits of using one, but I think he believes that the community as a whole isn't ready for them. Something along those lines.

[BubblyBoar]

...

On the first point, a parser being in game wouldn't have changed anything. That person was willing to get better when advised. They didn't need a parser in game to do so. hey didn't need actual visible proof in game to see they needed to improve. Someone told them and they did. That's the point I'm getting at here. You keep bringing me examples of people getting better after they were told they could and I'm sitting here wondering why it keeps getting brought up as if you can't do that already?

[Arutan]

2. I have better things to do than watch another DPS player in an attempt to ascertain whether they're doing a good job: I have my OWN rotations, AoEs, HP bars, adds, etc to watch for.

Sometime it's real easy to catch. I've spotted lots of BLM using Ice II on bosses.

[Delily]

They're not technically allowed, because they fall into the 3rd party program category. Other than that, Squenix doesn't care as long as you don't go yelling about it and know how to behave. Yoshi also knows the merits of using one, but I think he believes that the community as a whole isn't ready for them. Something along those lines.

He's right about this; parsers are invaluable tools for statics, as it lets them understand their performance when they're pushing content. For PUGs and the general population, parsers are nothing but ePeen waving and a reason to put down other people.

[Delily]

This.

It's 100% contradictory.

Imagine trying to play as a healer and not being able to see the HP of your party members, instead having to guess who is injured and who isn't.

That's basically DPS as a role right now...

That's why we have tools like Sky and Sea and The Circles of Answering.

[Xtrasweettea]

[...] For PUGs and the general population, parsers are nothing but ePeen waving and a reason to put down other people.

I didn't know I was waving my ePeen around and putting down others when I run a parser in PUGs. That's something I didn't know I could do when I don't let others know I run one, I don't say anything about numbers or damage, and I don't talk to anyone beyond the initial "Hello" (unless I need to explain mechanics or say "NP", "TY", "YW", "My bad on that one").

I bet there is something like below that shows up on everyone else's screens when I have ACT up.

That's gotta be it!

Sorry to all of those who I have insulted when you partied with me and I had ACT up. What you may have thought to be a simple "Hello" was really me saying "Get ready to get a face full of my awesome ePeen because have mommy issues and I am going to take it out on you!"

I am not using the parser for any analysis or anything (that would be weird).

[Kaurhz]

That's why we have tools like Sky and Sea and The Circles of Answering.

Both of which don't give any reasonable statistic. Sure it tells me if my rotation in general is correct and sufficient, but beating on a dummy, and beating on savage, and primals, whilst juggling mechanics is something entirely different, even with the over-inflated DPS check for passing the dummies.


This topic gives me like a dozen conflicting thoughts

[Miste]

For PUGs and the general population, parsers are nothing but ePeen waving and a reason to put down other people.

I think you might be surprised how many times you've DF with someone using a parser and you would never know they were using one.

You aren't allowed to say anything anyway so no one does; so how do people accomplish "putting down" other people? I mean yeah they can see if someone is severely underperforming, but vocalizing it by harassing someone for their numbers ain't worth getting banned over because you can report people for harassing others with parser data.

A lot of people simply use them to keep track of their own performance and to try to improve themselves.