What should be the next tank job

[Jhett_Magnum]

It would probably require a home setting where there is actual heroic potential in the profession.

Otherwise, though, there are other usable terms. Cavalier, Templar, and Warden are just a few to come to mind.

You're absolutely right. People are failing to realize that Dark Knight is just as evil. Inquisitors and Dark Knights are what ever means necessary archetype.

[Jhett_Magnum]

Sword Saint (Pure caster tank)


Inb4 people see Saint and get triggered cause "..but paladin though.."

Blah blah blah mock build w.e

[Shippuu]

You keep saying this, but so far I've yet to hear anyone else decidedly condemn its prospects.

The least played job in FFXI, lolpup replaced loldrg.

Name a single piece of media where a character was a "puppetmaster" and was one of the most popular characters in that form of media.

that hardly speaks to the potential of a pet class capable of tooling out different avatars, making use of devices through them, salvaging them, etc., etc.

None of that is something that's unique to Puppetmaster. Beastmaster can fulfill those same kinds of things while also being widely more appealing in every way as well as being an actual staple of Final Fantasy games (Not to mentioned name dropped specifically by Yoshida as something he'd want to do down the road as another pet job).

[Shippuu]

Pure caster tank

There are a lot of flaws when it comes to this concept. Tanks are required to move too much to reliably be casters without exceptions allowing them to cast while moving. Which changes them from casters to just regular jobs who have wait timers on their abilities. Secondly they need instant abilities for many things like aggro generation meaning they would have to have a collection of skills that are instant cast. Thirdly, if they're magic casters, there's significant problems if they only do magic damage. Fourthly, 2 out of the 3 tanks are already magic leaning, making a third is more redundant.

[Shippuu]

People spent 15mil on a single piece of gear just to use as a glamour. The price tag argument is moot.

These are not equivalent and you know it. And not everyone bought glamour for 15mil. Tying strength and progression to how big your pocketbook is the stupidest idea from any standpoint. It just opens up this supposed tank to being subpar because the VAST majority of people wouldn't she'll out the money. It's bad enough seeing tanks in crap gear in dungeons, basing additional performance on more of that is just asinine.

The game itself is lacking things for players to actually spend gil on resulting in most players with any decent amount of playtime amassing a large surplus of it.

The solution to this isn't to force jobs to shell out tons of money. It's not even a serious problem in the first place.

most PUP players enjoyed the aspect of having a customizable pet.

Yes, all 12 of them.../sarcasm.


Any pet job can have customizable pets, it's nothing restricted to only puppetmaster. Such a mechanic can easily be implemented onto a pet job that actually has more appeal.

[GavynG]

I have been waiting YEARS now for them to add Blue Mage, and now it looks like I have to wait two more years just for a chance for them to finally add it. At this point I couldn't care less if it ends up as a tank class, just add the damn job already rawr! ~/o/

[Blanchimont]

I want to see a shielding type class, not a shield like in the case of Paladin, but a shielding class that is able to generate their own damage mitigation somehow with their combos. It would be like a magical warrior.

[Shurrikhan]

The least played job in FFXI, lolpup replaced loldrg.

Again... this is not XI. What designs therein failed there obviously will not be redone here...

Name a single piece of media where a character was a "puppetmaster" and was one of the most popular characters in that form of media.

Although portion of mains has decreased (due in part to the more than doubled character count), Kankuro in the Naruto dueling games.

None of that is something that's unique to Puppetmaster. Beastmaster can fulfill those same kinds of things while also being widely more appealing in every way as well as being an actual staple of Final Fantasy games (Not to mentioned name dropped specifically by Yoshida as something he'd want to do down the road as another pet job).

Pet attacks as an extension of the caster (e.g. nonautonomous pets), while perhaps not absolutely unique to puppetmaster (someone could always come up with a new job that does the same, after all), certainly won't be found on any reasonable Beastmaster. I also wonder how you'd be salvaging your living pets... Or redevicing them on the fly... So that's at least 2 out of the 4... Hmm.

Again, I've no stake in this. I'm just not sure why you're fixated against any combination of synergetic mechanics if under the name puppetmaster. I see the likely prospects of Beastmaster and Puppetmaster as quite distinct, honestly, so I just can't really determine what your stake against it is. A more renowned should come first; okay, sure. By all means, toss names to the hungry crowds. But why deny any possible iteration of a concept unilaterally? Because it was done poorly in one of its four iterations? Because it appeared in one fewer main title than Beastmaster? Why the enmity?

Down the line, what works works. History lessons don't suddenly make XIV Ninjas tanks; why neglect everything a job concept can do in a new iteration?

[Shippuu]

Again... this is not XI. What designs therein failed there obviously will not be redone here...

Starting from an already failed concept/design defies logic and sitting there saying "We can do it right this time", while optimistic, doesn't make good business sense. They have a better chance of picking something that actually has a popular foundation or theme, than with going with something that already wasn't popular and trying to turn it into something maybe popular.

Although portion of mains has decreased (due in part to the more than doubled character count), Kankuro in the Naruto dueling games.

I highly doubt this claim. Kankuro is far from being anywhere near a highly popular character in the Naruto series as a whole. Be more specific, which games specifically. Where's the evidence of this claim. Show me a credible tier list, or credible usage statistics.

Even then, fighting games are a pretty poor example where the competitive nature of the games means people play characters who are the strongest regardless of who or what they are. Being a puppetmaster certainly hasn't done Carl or Relius from the Blazblue series any favors as they're consistently pretty unpopular for example.

Pet attacks as an extension of the caster (e.g. nonautonomous pets), while perhaps not absolutely unique to puppetmaster (someone could always come up with a new job that does the same, after all), certainly won't be found on any reasonable Beastmaster.

Except that this is absolutely something a beastmaster could have because just about every pet based job in an MMO has something exactly like this, with the overwhelming majority of those pet based jobs being some kind of beastmaster-esque (I.e. person + beast/animal). Combination attacks would still 100% fall within the purview of beastmaster.

I also wonder how you'd be salvaging your living pets... Or redevicing them on the fly... So that's at least 2 out of the 4... Hmm.

There's this neat thing called magic in the game, which can be used to do all kinds of things like augment your pet through your spiritual/magical link you have with them. Give the beastmaster pets simple armor that can be obtained that changes their stats and abilities, this fulfills the same exact function as swapping out parts of a puppet. Changing things in the middle of combat? Simply switch pets on the fly. You may not be able to "salvage" a living pet (Whatever that entails) but you can certainly do far more interesting subsystems if they wanted to go crazy in implementing a pet breeding system.

So that's 0 out of 4 so far.

I'm just not sure why you're fixated against any combination of synergetic mechanics if under the name puppetmaster.

Because it's simply put, a bad idea. It'd be a severe waste of development time and resources when there are a plethora of other options that are significantly better concepts to pick. The puppetmaster archetype as a whole, irregardless of FFXI, is entirely unpopular. They need to pick things that would actually have widespread allure. A puppetmaster simply doesn't have that.

A more renowned should come first; okay, sure.

In no reality should Puppetmaster come to this game before Beastmaster. So by suggesting it as the "next" tank job while the game still sees a lack of Beastmaster is preposterous. It's nowhere near a staple Final Fantasy job, it's nowhere near a popular concept as a whole. They're better off doing something more unique and original than trying to put in Puppetmaster into this game, plain and simple.

Yoshida has already said the next pet job he'd like to do is Beastmaster, on stage at the last Japanese Fan Festival. He also said it wouldn't be something he'd do until much later, jokingly saying maybe in 10 years. It'll likely be a long time before we see a new pet job in the game anyways. He's also specifically said before that Puppetmaster isn't even being considered for inclusion to the game.

I mean, here's also a snippet from the recent Chinese Fan Fest as well:

They hear lots of demands on having a beast/monster tamer type of job, but it's difficult when they consider FFXIV's battle system. However, they do think that having some sort of system where you can collect monsters is interesting, so they will take it back to the devs to discuss it.

Even that seems to imply they'd be more likely to just implement a monster collection system rather than an actual job.

[DWolfwood]

This is pretty much what I want.

Something like this is fine too, but basically something that holds a heavy gun like this: