I hate that BRD is so dependent on DRGs Buffs/Debuff

[Hakuohsama]

I don't think that's what the OP is saying, though I could be wrong. As it stands, BRD/MCH are the only two physical DPS roles that do not apply their own damage debuff to increase their DPS-- SAM/NIN both have skills to apply slashing, MNK has Dragon Kick to apply blunt, DRG applies piercing. BRD/MCH have no such debuff, and if the developers are keen to keep the resistance debuffs in the game, then it would be nice to give BRD/MCH a way to apply the piercing debuff to mobs so that they can maximize their own damage.

While the reason behind playing a BRD is not "pure damage" and rather "party support," it does still kind of suck that BRD/MCH have to remain reliant on a DRG to apply a very basic damage debuff.

Thank you finally someone that understands the problem..

[prophecy4seen]

Honestly sounds like crying.. You want to be competitive with other classes, maybe you want to be 1st place in dps with your team by the end of the raid encounter. Why not just manually calculate what 5% more damage would of done.. If your second place the person above you is only marginally better.. take pride in knowing that if you had a goon, you would likely of won.

I think everyone forgets that the bard/mch is prettymuch the only class that is genuinely suppose to have 100% uptime. Blm/Smn/Rdm all have cast times. that can be interupted.. If your melee, there are mechanics you may need to avoid resulting in you not being able to attack the boss.. Only Physical Ranged DPS get the best of all worlds.. Would it be fair that they do the most damage?
With the recent MCH buffs, we are basically back to a world where the best comp is NIN/DRG/MCH/BRD. I'm really failing to see how anyone can complain when there are bards and machinist easily doing 5.2k+ damage.

[Lastelli]

My Point is that a DRG effect your total dmg out put by 5% which is actually alot witht he current Numbers.
And that only DRG can provide this debuff while other classes besides Monk use there Slash resistance which multiple calsses apply.
If you had at least 2 classes with a piercing debuff this wouldnt be that big of a problem.
Imagine everyone wouldnt have the 10% slashing debuff which would hurt alot of classes.

Well, in a drk-pld-mnk-drg comp tanks have the same problem. It's actually a way bigger problem in this case since the combined dps of both tanks is greater than the dps of a brd/mch and slashing debuff is 10%. And 5% is 5%, absolute numbers are always misleading.

[Eyvhokan]

It's the fact the BRD (and MCN) is actually reliant on the DRG for full potential. They are in effect tethered to the class. Another BRD or MCN that does have a DRG is just gets 5% more damage. If you do 4k dps without the DRG, that's another 200dps that you're missing out on.

Like imagine of RDM had a fire vulnerability debuff on hitting with Jolt - BLM would then need a RDM present to reach full potential.

Imagine if the slashing debuff was removed from NIN and SAM. Now NIN and SAM need to have a warrior tank/OT to reach their full potential.

Now when it comes to balance, what do you balance these classes around?

In the abstract, the classes with the dependencies either are substandard every time the other is not present, or balanced they are clearly the optimum choice to always take for max damage because of it.

----

The slashing debuff is in the same boat, but there's less of a single dependency because NIN, SAM and WAR all provide it rather than only DRG, so there are far more comp options. And you always want NIN anyway.

[Lastelli]

The slashing debuff is in the same boat, but there's less of a single dependency because NIN, SAM and WAR all provide it rather than only DRG, so there are far more comp options. And you always want NIN anyway.

You always want a DRG too, at least if we're talking about the optimal party composition. If not, any composition is perfectly fine.

[Hakuohsama]

SNip

Do you even read? I dont want to be the Top DPS in my group. Its just unfair that my full potential is hinddered when i dont have a DRG in my Group.
And DRG is the ONLY Class that can provide this debuff for me and thats stuipid.

And 5k Dmg? Yeah fully maxed out with DRG etc.. you can do that.. thats the whole Point that its impossible without it and simply stuipid that you get hindered by Classes.

[Tsilyi]

I understand the desire to apply your own damage buff but... then do we give slashing to pld/drk and therefore may as well completely remove them? disembowel missing is not going to remove you from a raid group as bard. the job is too useful.

[Eyvhokan]

You always want a DRG too, at least if we're talking about the optimal party composition. If not, any composition is perfectly fine.

That's why I mentioned before:

>In the abstract, the classes with the dependencies either are substandard every time the other is not present, or balanced they are clearly the optimum choice to always take for max damage because of it.

NIN BRD DRG

[AxelDH]

I honestly expected the piercing debuff to be given to another class in Stormblood, but they decided to go down the route of halving its effect so it isn't quite as important... ah well!

While a DRG might have more of an impact on a Bards DPS compared to any other 1 job, its not like its the only thing to look at. The whole of the team composition is important for your DPS, just like it is for all jobs.

If one group has SCH/MNK/NIN/RDM/BRD, and another has WHM/DRG/SAM/BLM/BRD - the former would give you Chain Strat, Brotherhood, Trick Attack and Embolden, while the latter would only give you Disembowel and Battle Litany... and possibly Dragon Sight, although they really shouldn't be giving that to the Bard! I'm pretty sure those effects would even out. So, you cant say just because you dont have a dragoon, that you're instantly screwed! (Now if your party has 2 WHM, 2 SAM and a BLM, then you might have a reason to complain!)

(Also, I dont think that a Bards DOTs are affected by the piercing debuff either, so it won't be a straight up 5% increase.)

[MauvaisOeil]

Imagine if the slashing debuff was removed from NIN and SAM. Now NIN and SAM need to have a warrior tank/OT to reach their full potential.

That was pretty much the case with nin during hw. With no warrior, they could hardly go with aeolian edge due to much to refresh with gcd.

Basically during arr and hw, except for dragoon, resistance down was a choice that was suboptimal potency speaking, but optimal dps wise even alone.

Thus, multiples jobs having the same damage type could affect one to the maintain of debuff and one going full damage.

Since resistance down is included in every dps cycle except monk (which can skip it if running dual monk for whatever reason), they loose much sense and only sum up to one thing : buffing mch, drg, pld and drk if the specific job are present.

Are they mandatory ? Yes.
Are they interesting ? No.
Could they be changed by something else ? Maybe but... by what ? Especially for sam/war/drg they would break a hole in having non interesting combos tied to nothing.