Suggestion to combat Mentors intentionally inviting RMT Advertisers

[Joe777]

hmm again I have to say point missed. You are simply ignoring my idea for no reason. If you want a proper debate, you are supposed to list the pros and cons of yours and compare them to the pros and cons of mine. It is your view we should ignore the risks of power abuse, and this being the internet that is laughable. When I see mentors kick other mentors purely from disagreeing with them, you have to question if your utopia view transverse all servers, and it is likely a biased view. To be unwilling to accept there is a chance of abuse is mind boggling to me. Despite all that ignoring all that, you did not address the crucial point I had to you. Your suggestion does not attack the root problem at all, and assuming people are intentionally inviting RMT Advertisers. This alone destroys your own argument that your sever is a utopia where no one will abuse the power you are proposing to give people.

The fact you stated "The thing is though (at least when it happens on our server) the RMT Advertiser leaves after advertising" shows you are completely ignoring my suggestion. Why is this? why are you not recognizing my idea at all and commenting at that and just defending yours? I am not dismissing this is a problem, just your solution while trying to help with a better one.





This^



Yes that was pointed out earlier. More reason for me to support dismissing your "solution" you just want to name shame people/target people.

If you truly want me to debate your statement then fine, I will humor you. However, I make mention I never made this suggestion as a debate in the first place, just a means for players to help root out problematic invites to the Novice Network. I also do not intend to debate you further after this post so please don't try, it will be ignored.

To begin with, the fact that you are so bent on my suggestion supposedly promoting both naming and shaming and power abuse honestly says you are dealing with people on a daily basis that could very well do so. If this is the case they are already doing it and should already be getting dealt with.

Next I will address your thoughts on me not acknowledging your suggestion. Do I necessarily have to say anything to prove I do or do not? If you think me initially saying you are trolling is making you doubt this then you need not worry about that. You defend your idea just as strongly as I defend mine you know. Do you see me trying to find fault in yours though? No, you do not. Why? Let us first look at what would happen if someone did report someone for RMT. As it stands right now it honestly does no good. If your idea was implemented then in order for Square Enix to see that someone is intentionally inviting the RMT Advertiser into the Novice Network it would mean that reports would send screenshots of the reportee's chat log to them. Can that happen? Not much reason it cannot I guess. Will it? Should it? Does it? Only Square Enix can tell. Beyond that, it would require multiple reports to provide proof of this, and what if multiple Mentors are involved? Sure you can ask this at my idea too, but the bottom line is both of us are trying to come up with ways to combat a potential problem, yet you insist on attacking mine while I do not. This is why I called troll attempt. Not everything has to be a debate you know. Again I am sorry you have such paranoia of abuse but get over it. If it gets abused it can be dealt with the same as any other abuse, but that is if, and as I said before: such abuse could only happen if a power abuser is already present, in which case deal with them now rather than later. And don't use the internet's state as an excuse, because frankly I could argue no one takes the internet seriously as a counterpoint.

Now let us address your attack on me saying my server is, as you put it, a utopia and how I could be worrying about things if it wasn't. For starters, I never said it was that nice. No server is that nice, sadly. However, ours is minimal toxicity with its share of problems. As a community though we try to combat these problems. However, we can only do so much without sufficient evidence to report potentially punishable offenses. I am sure every server deals with their share of problems. Our server is open so we deal with RMT. So in short trying to call contradiction on how I regard my server is a moot point here.

Finally, your last statement on my more recent post. Once again, I call trolling. That said, I think we are done here. You have your acknowledgement so I bid you good day.

[Snow_Princess]

Calls me troll, states will not talk to me, continuously misses my point, thinks players should take the jobs of gms, gms should be left out in taking care of RMT reports, thinks players do a better job at RMT advertising monitoring, can't see Circular reasoning of saying no one is toxic, no one will abuse the power and yet people are always intentionally inviting RMT Advertisers.

10/10 , that is the TDLR for people, if you can't deal with people pointing out faults in your ideas, and not listen to them and ignore everything people say, why even post? This is not a recent post, this is not troll:

I've heard tales of bots that actually ask to be added and the unsuspecting mentor adds them as requested... hardly their fault if they do.

But the bigger thing... you don't have to be in the novice network to invite someone to it. Even if they were in the network, kicking them out (!) wouldn't fix anything.

It is post number 17, you commenting like it was new news is post number #29. Is it a common thing to call people trolls for disagreeing with you? or pointing out you missed something and did not comment? Because that is not the meaning of the word.
Who thinks this should be supported? or should the problem be fixed by what I proposed?

I will not support a change to the game to enable more kick abuse if the person can't give a good enough case for wanting the change in question, it is not attacking at all. GMs are there to handle RMT advertisements not the players. By your "it should be player handled, not the gms" lets let players ban players, I wonder how well that will go. it is not paranoia. I am pointing out a legitimate flaw in your proposed solution while refusing to work with me.

[Joe777]

post number 17

I did not notice someone had said that actually. I learned of it in-game afterward, which is why I posted what I did about it in a later post and comment on the fact it should not be possible to do so.

[Taika]

I saw a RMT bot with a player name shout today in Limsa to ask for a NN invite. It shouted "Mentors pls invitation me join novice network" and had a normal player name, so there was no way for anyone to know it was a RMT bot (other than it later shouting gilselling advertisement).

[Rakiria]

I have to both agree and disagree with Snow princess. First of all, kicking a mentor as Joe would do probably won't help, as others have pointed out it is easy to invite RMT bots on accident.
BUT Snow Princess' idea is just as easily abused, and affects bots about as much as reporting the marketplace ones. That means it doesn't. They just make new ones, stand in their starting city and shout for invites. So I do think to solve this problem, you would have to get the mentors to be a little more careful about inviting people. You don't have to do a full interview, but just sending a tell asking to confirm wanting to join would be enough to eliminate the possibility of a bot. The only other solution to this i think would be some kind of captcha before joining, but that would only inconvenience actual players.

[Snow_Princess]

I did not notice someone had said that actually. I learned of it in-game afterward, which is why I posted what I did about it in a later post and comment on the fact it should not be possible to do so.

Are you going to take back calling me a troll for pointing out you missed that? You did not see it because you are not reading, you should take the time to understand what people are saying. There is a reason I said countless times you are missing the point. It is very offensives to call someone a troll that is trying to help your cause, but you are too biased that your solution is the only way, and not seeing it has flaws. You chose to ignore my idea completely instead of maybe using it with yours to form a better idea or feed off the input in some way. No I am not a troll for you not taking the time to understand what people are saying. How did your miss post number 17 ,18, and 20 and only commented on 19? you need take your time and understand what people are saying, these forums are not going anywhere in the next hour or day or something.

You can't just stand there, call me a troll then go "oh i did not see that post" you have a bit more to say.....

I have to both agree and disagree with Snow princess. First of all, kicking a mentor as Joe would do probably won't help, as others have pointed out it is easy to invite RMT bots on accident.
BUT Snow Princess' idea is just as easily abused, and affects bots about as much as reporting the marketplace ones. That means it doesn't. They just make new ones, stand in their starting city and shout for invites. So I do think to solve this problem, you would have to get the mentors to be a little more careful about inviting people. You don't have to do a full interview, but just sending a tell asking to confirm wanting to join would be enough to eliminate the possibility of a bot. The only other solution to this i think would be some kind of captcha before joining, but that would only inconvenience actual players.

How does it get easily abused if the GM will take action on the person abusing it? I did forget how easy they are replaced though, that still exists as a problem on other servers? I thought they would of had some kind of countermeasure for replacing bots so easily.

I saw a RMT bot with a player name shout today in Limsa to ask for a NN invite. It shouted "Mentors pls invitation me join novice network" and had a normal player name, so there was no way for anyone to know it was a RMT bot (other than it later shouting gilselling advertisement).

It is not clear English though so it would be easy to spot to simply ask them a question. However, the problem is expecting everyone to know that and it that alone will not solve anything.

[Dualgunner]

You had me at combating mentors.

[Taika]

It is not clear English though so it would be easy to spot to simply ask them a question. However, the problem is expecting everyone to know that and it that alone will not solve anything.

On EU server that doesn't say much. :P And it might be a new player who doesn't know how to respond to /tells etc. I think it's actually better to just assume a person who's asking for an invite is really a new player and invite them with the risk of them being a gilseller bot (of course it's a good idea also to check if they're shouting RMT advertisement before ). It's better to make a mistake and invite a bot than scare a newbie away imho.

[aesteval]

I actually don't bother blacklisting them unless I am going to be where they are spamming say channel for a bit, and then I remove them later since keeping them blacklisted only ends up wasting space on that list. The only thing I do in response to their spam is report them.

As for when they get into Novice Network, they advertise once and leave each time.

The fact that you don't blacklist is not relevant. The fact that some people do and the location of both options is relevant - it provides a readily available example of how they're invited accidentally.

[Joe777]

The fact that you don't blacklist is not relevant. The fact that some people do and the location of both options is relevant - it provides a readily available example of how they're invited accidentally.

You are right, it isn't relevant. On my server at least it does not seem to be an issue though.