SE, We need to talk about Leatherworker ...

[ChameleonMS]

Every level 66 and 67 gsm craft requires 3, 6, or 9 items from a timed node, the level 69 recipes all take 7 or 10.

And that would be the balance factor I was referring to in execution.
But, if you look at the lower levels. E.g. Gagana Leather vs Koppranickel Nugget the effort difference is as glaring as my math you do not agree with says.

My biggest complaint is not that is takes a long time to gather the mats required it is the effort differential on the most trivial and frequently used items.

I think SE had the balance slightly better in HW when the materials being not timed but RNG appearing on the node. It definitely increased the gathering effort of Ores / Logs and brought them closer to Skins. The ores needed for one refined material average was also higher at 5 ores.

[Ziggyzapps]

And that would be the balance factor I was referring to in execution.
But, if you look at the lower levels. E.g. Gagana Leather vs Koppranickel Nugget the effort difference is as glaring as my math you do not agree with says.

Koppranickel nuggets aren't the main ingredient to anything except 1 blacksmith craft, they are used to make koppranickel ingot which serves the same purpose as gagana leather. Base ingredients for weavers main mat at this level are 8 kudza vine, 4 cotton bolls, and 12 crystals more than gagana leather. Armorer has it pretty easy with their ingots but most of their recipes require 4 main ingredients and reisuis. Carpenter logs are very easy at this level though, but they are always easy for some reason.

[QT_Melon]

No it was worse in HW until they put up a vendor. When a base leveling mat was time gated, it was a bit ridiculous.

[ChameleonMS]

So, can we agree that the jobs/classes are not balanced and they should be? Or, do you still want to defend the systems in-equities for jobs/classes of the same role?

When DoW jobs of the same role are not close to equal, SE, has made a reasonable commitment to somewhat equalize them. Why shouldn't we expect, nay, demand such equalizations be done for DoH?

No it was worse in HW until they put up a vendor. When a base leveling mat was time gated, it was a bit ridiculous.

You are absolutely correct, and that type of measure is an example of the balancing I think needs to be done.

*grammar correction*

[QT_Melon]

I made the suggestion pages ago that they should probably have a vendor, or upcoming beast tribe. It wasn't like it hasn't happened before.

[Ziggyzapps]

So, can we agree that the jobs/classes are not balanced and they should be? Or, do you still want to defend the systems in-equities for jobs/classes of the same role?

No. I'd agree that some things are not balanced but why exactly do they need to be? Some would make the argument that each crafting class being unique makes things more interesting and is better for the economy. Dawn serge is annoying but its used in left side end game crafting pieces that should be expensive.. goldsmith and armorer don't even make any expensive gear at this level. Do you suggest we increase armorer/goldsmith ore usage by x5 on useless crafts just because weavers and leatherworkers are making left side crafter pieces and their mats are harder to get? The level 67+ armorer chest pieces and gloves all take 2 or 1 dawn serge + the reisui, they aren't exactly on easy street and goldsmith got the timed nodes.

Camphor was probably the biggest imbalance of hw crafting, no one had it as bad as leatherworker during 3.2 and it had nothing to do with skins. It was good though because people could put in extra effort and craft some leather if they wanted to make a nice profit. Would of been tedius to give each crafter a similar mat but it was nice for just 1 crafter. Not everyone agrees the system needs to be balanced or that it is really even that imbalanced to begin with, and I have not seen any good arguments as to why it needs to be balanced.

I made the suggestion pages ago that they should probably have a vendor, or upcoming beast tribe. It wasn't like it hasn't happened before.

It's a desynth, and probably meant to be a little reward to the people who bother leveling desynth. I did a rough test on 100 items and dawn serge cloth price was about 20k-25k per cloth, market price is around 45k. Dravanian mistletoe and coerthan tea leaves gated 4 different crafters 2 levels into the expansion, dawn serge is just kinda annoying. It's probably not gonna be sold in shops any time soon.

[QT_Melon]

It's a desynth, and probably meant to be a little reward to the people who bother leveling desynth. I did a rough test on 100 items and dawn serge cloth price was about 20k-25k per cloth, market price is around 45k. Dravanian mistletoe and coerthan tea leaves gated 4 different crafters 2 levels into the expansion, dawn serge is just kinda annoying. It's probably not gonna be sold in shops any time soon.

By that logic so were the leathers. You got them through desynth as well. That being said, I agree pretty much you're saying for the rest of it. I just stated they could vendor it, ie through a later beast tribe or vendor since it's happened before. People shouldn't be surprised if it did happen. However there seems to be a lot of people wearing Nostalgia goggles for HW which had a lot of mats that were time gated or mats not even in the overworld as somehow easier than what is going on now.

[ChameleonMS]

Not everyone agrees the system needs to be balanced or that it is really even that imbalanced to begin with

That is you opinion which differs from mine. That is fine, this is a discussion after all. Differing points of view are more than welcome, even desired.
We can all learn from the differing opinions and hopefully, the DEV pay attention and improve the game based on these discussions.


Just a quick correction to this statement.

Koppranickel nuggets aren't the main ingredient to anything except 1 blacksmith craft

Koppranickel Nugget is used in 37 finished products in addition to the Ingot.
Koppranickel Nugget

[Maeka]

I would have to say that I am disliking leather very quickly.

This morning, my mission was "Get 6 Gagana Leather for a suit of crafting gear."

When I went out, my weekly Bosom Buddies II was 30/100.

It takes 3 Skins per Leather, so I needed 18.

Well, when I finally got 18 skins, I had 40 eggs and my BBII was ~85/100.

Seriously. For 18 skins to make 6 leathers. I would get 2 eggs, 1 egg, 3 eggs 2 eggs.... 1 skin..... 2 eggs, 3 eggs, nothing x10, 2 eggs, ... 3 skins. That's upwards of 10 kills per single leather, and very few LTW items need only 1 leather.

And let's not even mention that there's only like 5-6 of the stupid birds even there and I was only lucky there was nobody else farming them. And yes yes Ventures yadda yadda. What if I have something else I need/want my NPC to get? I should drop what I'm doing because ventures are the only "reasonable" way of getting them?

[QT_Melon]

There's two areas where the gagana can be found. One is right outside the Reach where you fly up to the west side and find level 67 Gagana. The other is on the part of the Fringes where it becomes desert. Lesser Gagana.

I dunno why but the 67 ones like to actually drop leathers more for me than the Lessers. However it takes a bit more time to kill them. The eggs are used in some pretty handy recipes. Baklava and Egg Foo Young are CUL collectible turn ins, Tempura Platter...the godsend food for crafters also can be a turn in as well.