Sadly sayiing goodbye to SCH

[Rivxkobe]

If I'm tanking... I honestly think I'll also just drop out if the healer is a SCH.

This is really gross.

[Tillen]

What? He's totally right. That's how you play SCH at a high level.
https://www.fflogs.com/reports/QYnP7...aling&source=8

You're talking about O3S and he is talking about 65-68 dungeons. If you both mean in general oGCD vs GCD heals...well duh. But forcing SCH or any healer into a specific style is exactly the problem.

Are you healing a dungeon, lvl 70, lower, solo healing an ex-primal, 8man raid, 24man raid, main heals, off heals, dual SCH, pug, static, WHM, AST?
You're play style should change depending on the situation and the fight.

[Lastelli]

You're talking about O3S and he is talking about 65-68 dungeons. If you both mean in general oGCD vs GCD heals...well duh. But forcing SCH or any healer into a specific style is exactly the problem.

Are you healing a dungeon, lvl 70, lower, solo healing an ex-primal, 8man raid, 24man raid, main heals, off heals, dual SCH, pug, static, WHM, AST?
You're play style should change depending on the situation and the fight.

And still, some jobs are clearly designed in such a way that a prevalent play style emerges naturally. And this is particularly true for SCH. No matter if you're healing a dungeon or a end game raid, the same rules apply. Let your fairy work as much as you (and she) can because it's free healing basically. If the fairy is not enough, start using indomitability/excog/lustrate while you use gcd for dps spells. If you need even more healing or you need shields because of tank busters and heavy raid damage then start using adlo/succor and physicks as a last resort. That's it. This is how sch healing toolkit should be used if you want to play effeciently. It's a totally different healer from ast/whm.

[technole]

It's okay, I'm not offended by comments from those who haven't even completed the hardest content in the game, let alone stepped into a Savage floor. Which of course requires high-end play of your job to even succeed at clearing a tier. Some will learn how high-level Scholar play works in-time. Sometimes they wonder how that other SCH is making everything look easy. Maybe they will come back to this thread and realize what it takes to get to that level.

You heal raids and dungeons in the same manner because of how the job is designed and what the job excels at. If you try to play SCH like a WHM, you will be spending more time manually healing and run yourself OOM. SCH is full of one-button heals that should be used as the first resort, not last resort. It's the same concept with tanking. If you just use your defensive cool downs as "oh crap" buttons you are not being very resourceful, and you will be causing your healers to be strained. It's the same with SCH, you'll only make your job harder if you don't take advantage of your oGCDs and keeping Aetherflow on cool down. Even the quickened Aetherflow trait encourages aggressive play with your stacks, which also builds the fairy gauge.

As for Eos, Rouse+Whispering Dawn is practically used on cooldown, whether in-dungeons or in raid play, to also not have the other healer manually cast Medica II/AH that much, along with Indom to top-up for mechanical damage. Every dungeon pull you'd pretty much have it up. That is your 2nd regen source. Now that you have that up, you can even switch to Fey Union on that mega-pull. But you probably didn't realize you can get WD up before she goes super-sayan tether heal mode.

So what do I think is 'wrong' with SCH? Certainly as far as NeoExdeath goes, I think it's the 'harder' healer to heal alongside, on 34 pulls helping some friends on it the other night the healing was noticeably harder work than with my usual team. We just couldn't consistently mitigate Almagest to the same extent my AST does. That's a total reversal from SB where it was usually a lot easier healing alongside a SCH vs Double AST or WHM/AST =(

I do think Noct AST is good for blind progression because of easily spamable mitigation along with CU while you are progressing. But with SCH handling Almagest it does require lining up cool downs because Deploy Adlo+Sacred Soil and whatever else you can use is really good to decrease the DoT.

[Silver-Strider]

Snip.

This is the case in the best case scenarios but not every scenario is like that. Sometimes you get bad tanks that don't pop CDs, DPS that don't AoE after the tank has pulled everything from one boss to the next, people that seem to have cement in their shoes that can't run out of AoEs, etc. These situations have been much more prominent lately that SCH is sort stuck trying to be a reactive healer that it just isn't designed to be.

[Lastelli]

This is the case in the best case scenarios but not every scenario is like that. Sometimes you get bad tanks that don't pop CDs, DPS that don't AoE after the tank has pulled everything from one boss to the next, people that seem to have cement in their shoes that can't run out of AoEs, etc. These situations have been much more prominent lately that SCH is sort stuck trying to be a reactive healer that it just isn't designed to be.

That is the case if your party is not totally terrible. I can easily carry bad tanks during expert roulettes while still doing around 2k dps. I can keep tanks alive during big pulls even when they don't know what a defensive cooldown is while at least applying dots+bane because, again, excog, lustrate, and largesse adlo+roused embrace or even aetherpact are insanely powerful single target heals.
I admit that SCH is hard to play well, but it's a very powerful healer that can handle any bad situation in casual content and is absolutely amazing in raid if played correctly.
People that only want to spam powerful healing spells on the tank can try ast/whm. And by the way can we please stop this "reactive healer" nonsense? No healer in this game is reactive when played properly, especially SCH. Of course I'm talking about non-trivial content.

[Supersun]

Yeah if you're really going to include stuff like asylum as single target healing then it would be fair to also factor in SCH's fey illumination/convenant into the equation as well. I also didn't factor in adlo crits, which would add another ~1200 potency to the rotation.

The Adlo/Physic rotation I posted has the exact same mana cost as WHM's pure cureII rotation, but SCH also has the option of adding more adlo's to beat WHM's HPS at the cost of mana.

The scenario I posted was also pure 45s of hardcasted healing - the more time healers spend dps'ing/not casting GCD heals, the better off SCH gets.

At worst, in a pure hardcasting scenario, SCH is equal to WHM in single target with the potential to be much better. IDK why you have such a hard time believing that healers not named AST are fairly balanced right now.

In practice though you're wrong.

If you look at FFlogs and sort by Player healing to Tanks guess which class for the most part isn't there.

There's like 1 Scholar up there for some fights, but if you look a bit deeper the group brought 2 casters that were essentially MP batteries for the Scholar.

[Dregenfox]

In practice though you're wrong.

If you look at FFlogs and sort by Player healing to Tanks guess which class for the most part isn't there.

There's like 1 Scholar up there for some fights, but if you look a bit deeper the group brought 2 casters that were essentially MP batteries for the Scholar.

SCH usually isn't the main healer...the reason is because the opportunity cost is higher on WHM because if they can't hardcast their heals their oGCD's become terrible. Since WHM is forced to hardcast heals to be any good anyway, they are usually assigned the main healing role.

If you look at the logs, a significant portion of SCH is spent on DPS, lustrate, and indom. SCH's average ~13% less healing but ~16% more dps. A WHM forced to focus mainly on DPS will average much lower healing.

Slower/less expereinced groups also tend to rely on WHM more due to taking more widespread damage in general, which is where WHM shines in aoe HPS.

[Supersun]

SCH usually isn't the main healer...the reason is because the opportunity cost is higher on WHM because if they can't hardcast their heals their oGCD's become terrible. Since WHM is forced to hardcast heals to be any good anyway, they are usually assigned the main healing role.

If you look at the logs, a significant portion of SCH is spent on DPS, lustrate, and indom. SCH's average ~13% less healing but ~16% more dps. A WHM forced to focus mainly on DPS will average much lower healing.

Slower/less expereinced groups also tend to rely on WHM more due to taking more widespread damage in general, which is where WHM shines in aoe HPS.

It doesn't matter that Sch is usually the offhealer. That metric looks at the most done by anyone reporting logs as that class. If you sort by Scholar pretty much they are fights where the Scholar is main healing.

With the exception of one scholar, who like I mentioned was probably getting mana batteried, the best Scholars when main healing consistently output ~400 HPS to the tanks less than when a Whm or Ast main heals.

It's pretty hard to claim that Scholar is a better single target healer when Scholar is short ~400HPS behind both Whm and Ast for healing the tanks.

[Dregenfox]

It doesn't matter that Sch is usually the offhealer. That metric looks at the most done by anyone reporting logs as that class. If you sort by Scholar pretty much they are fights where the Scholar is main healing.

With the exception of one scholar, who like I mentioned was probably getting mana batteried, the best Scholars when main healing consistently output ~400 HPS to the tanks less than when a Whm or Ast main heals.

It's pretty hard to claim that Scholar is a better single target healer when Scholar is short ~400HPS behind both Whm and Ast for healing the tanks.

I wouldn't rely solely on fflogs to make that conclusion...SCH is also doing 300-400 more max DPS to bosses in those fights.. So drawing the conclusion that SCH DPS is higher than WHM just by those charts would be wrong, since WHM DPS is significantly higher than SCH even though most of the logs are showing the exact opposite.

...The other thing is that I don't even run out of mana anymore on SCH at 320 ilvl unless I'm forced to spam succor/raises, but aoe healing isn't really relevant to this discussion, besides the 1000 aoe pot/min from indom. SCH don't need mana batteries.

The best way to draw a conclusion would be pitting a WHM + WHM combo and seeing if they could match the HPS of a SCH + WHM combo while keeping the same combined DPS.