Until SE makes male and female glamours equal...

[Serilda]

until the real world allows us to socially crossdress in public, i definitely do not want to see males running around in bikinis

But the real world does allow us to crossdress in public, and if we want to take the social risk then we're more than welcome to do that. I don't get an error if I try to equip something bought in a shop which sells clothes for the opposite gender, I just wear the clothes and decide whether or not they fit.

Likewise, in FFXIV you can equip gear which looks absolutely horrible on you or you can choose to pick things which suit your character. Yet a completely random subset of gear is locked, and furthermore it's locked in a biased way which mean male characters have less content than female characters. It's not locked based on 'female'-ness of clothes (whatever that even is), because we can wear miniskirts, high heels, nail varnish, eyeshadow and crop tops galore. It's just...random.

This has nothing to do with bikinis, even though most of the male swimsuits actually are two piece bikini-esque sets. And every male Lalafell without a beard is potentially a female-looking male model o_O

[LurkerofDublin]

This has nothing to do with bikinis, even though most of the male swimsuits actually are two piece bikini-esque sets. And every male Lalafell without a beard is potentially a female-looking male model o_O

Case in point on the last bit, this picture. All but one of those is a girl. Guess which one is the boy. Also, I had intended to post the victory emotions played under this specific circumstance since it's rare to get a lala party, much less one that conveyed the example I wished to provide, BUT unfortunately ala mhigo doesn't play the /joy emotes since the final boss runs off and the player in the middle does that 'steps forward threateningly' emote instead.

[Chiramu]

Case in point on the last bit, this picture. All but one of those is a girl. Guess which one is the boy. Also, I had intended to post the victory emotions played under this specific circumstance since it's rare to get a lala party, much less one that conveyed the example I wished to provide, BUT unfortunately ala mhigo doesn't play the /joy emotes since the final boss runs off and the player in the middle does that 'steps forward threateningly' emote instead.

Male Lalafell and female Lalafell share many animations, they also look very similar in body type. My guess at the male is the Lala on the far left of the image.

[LurkerofDublin]

Male Lalafell and female Lalafell share many animations, they also look very similar in body type. My guess at the male is the Lala on the far left of the image.

Yes most of their animations are the same, however they are also mirrored. So if the /joy emotes played in that picture, you'd see all the girls do theirs together, with another image showing the male one doing his on the other foot. The only difference in build between the two is slight variation in the hips.

Also, the answer is the one in the pink. Male lalafells have darkened noses, even the optional dark nose for females doesn't work the same way since the dark focuses on the nose itself and not the 'blush' around it like a natural male lala nose does. Most who use that nose typically do it as fans of taru-tarus. But it can also be used to make your lalagal a transgender character. I'd do it with my own, but he's a transvestite so I keep him as male. Might try that route with my lalagal over on excalibur though, but if not satisfied I'll just play her straight with no caveats.

[hijifa]

Lalafell are meant to be androgynous... same like how a 11 year old could look like a boy or girl depending on how you dress them up.. how can you even bring them to this argument...

But the real world does allow us to crossdress in public, and if we want to take the social risk then we're more than welcome to do that. I don't get an error if I try to equip something bought in a shop which sells clothes for the opposite gender, I just wear the clothes and decide whether or not they fit.

no dude...

https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/tag/howard-nutt/

now this wouldn't be accepted in public.. keep in mind you should be thinking in an asian mindset.. in Japan, not in US..i guess in western countries anything goes...

some of you might argue that you're "free" to do whatever you want.. don't care what other people wear etc.. but still, walking around naked outside is definitely NOT socially accepted..


i do agree that the armor in the game doesn't be gender locked, but there should always still be 2 different models for the armor. like if you wore a bikini set on a female, its a female bikini, if you wear it on a male, it looks like a male bikini(these kind of armor already exists)..

[Lukha]

keep in mind you should be thinking in an asian mindset.. in Japan, not in US..i guess in western countries anything goes...

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say there. If it's that Western countries are 'more accepting' then you're probably wrong, since Japan has something of a cultural history of cross-dressing (going in both directions, even!) and feminizing males? In fact, this classical influence is almost certainly the reason you have pretty boys and handsome girls all over the place in anime, and a crazy number of series where the entire plot hinges on the protagonist having to crossdress. It was illegal for women to be involved in theater or entertainment for a very long time, which meant that you ended up with males who specialized in playing female roles or performing traditionally feminine arts (and who garnered male fanbases and patrons for doing so). There's also the all-female Takarazuka theater troupe, which has performed everything from classics like the Tale of Genji to adaptations of Phoenix Wright, with actresses who specialize in playing male roles (and garner large female fanbases for it!).

[Lukha]

So someone asked for guys in bikinis, and far be it from me not to deliver on such a request!





That blue, blue water is so pretty.

[Serilda]

Great photoshoot, Lukha! That's still the best swimsuit in the game in my opinion

Warr_of_Lint: I never realised that that top matched the skirt so well with the stitching pattern. Nice original glamour!

LurkerofDublin: I admit, neither myself nor my wife could work it out until you revealed the answer. Genderlocking Lalafell equipment highlights why none of this makes any sense.

keep in mind you should be thinking in an asian mindset.. in Japan, not in US..i guess in western countries anything goes...

You're telling me to consider that it's a Japanese game. I'm not from the US, actually, and I'm well aware of this. The Japanese developers of FFXIV are the people continuously releasing fashion skirts for men along with all of the other 'feminine' equipment male characters can wear, not the US playerbase. The entire FF series is steeped in Japanese culture and at the same time it's been openly embracing its vast female fanbase for years, with handsome, androgynous male characters making frequent appearances along with playful aesthetic options. FFXIV is downright revolutionary in terms of Japanese-made games, with same-sex 'marriage' part of the game, a heavy focus on genuinely unisex fashion (outside of the egregious lapses we're protesting) and a reasonable amount of subtext that makes it clear the writers are completely ok with people being whatever they want to be.

I brought Lalafell to the argument because it's patently ridiculous for people to argue that men are too manly to wear certain items when Lalafell men look almost exactly the same as Lalafell women. They're locked out for no reason. Nobody is going to be offended by a male Lalafell with a butterfly hairpin or a male Lalafell with bunny ears, because those things are not inherently gendered in the first place and even if they were, hardly anyone can tell male and female Lalafell apart at a casual glance so it's impossible to (rationally) find the look offensive. There is no cultural reason for a male Lalafell to have to be punished just because someone out there can't visualise a male Roegadyn with bunny ears - and I find it questionable that they cannot do that either, given that hardly any of the locked items are actually 'aggressively feminine' by design. Especially compared to what we can already equip.

We're not asking to 'walk around naked' (nice strawman, by the way). We can actually already walk around seemingly naked, and wearing less than a female character. That's irrelevant to this discussion.

We're asking to be treated equally to players with female characters when it comes to glamour. And if people are going to get hysterical that doing so will bring Eorzean society to a standstill because everyone will be too distracted by men in dresses to go about their daily lives, we're going to post pictures taken in the existing game demonstrating that we can already blow minds with the countless skirts, robes and dresses already on offer in the game.

If they want to optimise items and give male/female equivalents for each piece, fine. We had a long, long thread about how the Thavnairian Bustier could be tastefully adapted to give a handsome bishounen aesthetic on a man without literally being a dress, and that's a perfectly acceptable compromise. We're all tremendously excited/nervous about the legendary 'male bunny suit' that may eventually be coming at some point in the next decade. If they want to just lazily adapt the existing models, I'm fine with that too - I can make tons of the locked gloves, hats and boots work in perfectly respectable outfits without dipping a single toe into 'crossdressing' territory (though I don't have a problem with anyone who goes there). It sounds as though you basically agree with that sentiment, so I don't appreciate you coming in guns blazing and talking down to us as though we don't get it.

We get it. We just don't like it. That's the point.