Until SE makes male and female glamours equal...

[McChaffee]

-snip-

Can the arguments like this stop? It seems like every time a conversation like this comes up it always turns into an argument over men wearing dresses or something and people complaining about how it isn't realistic or the like.

Can we instead agree on something like the fact that all of the character wardrobes available on the store and the items (hair ect.) that come with them should be unisex since we are paying for these items to use in the game? Items in that category should have been reworked to work on all characters and shouldn't have been gender-locked.

PotD sets should be changed as well (expeditioner's) as both are gender neutral.

These would be good starting points. Outfits that you have to spend actual money to get and outfits that won't cause an unneeded argument.

[Lukha]

Did I hear someone say they want to see guys in bikinis? 'Cause I've got an Armoire full of bikinis and no other plans for the night (once I get off work anyway).

[JumperX]

People can be ridiculus. Women and men have been crossdressing many years ago for many different reasons so stop complaining. Why men want to use girly outfits "just and only in the present day". If female characters can wear male clothes (as far as I know women dressing like men in real life are criticized like men are being in here. Funny enough that most female characters are dressed up for males and most are -straight guys-) in this game then male characters should be allowed to have the same opportunity.

[Warr_of_Lint]

I fully support this thread. I've been forced to be creative (this is a men's only top), not to say that I'm displeased with what I've managed to put together, but I would be thrilled to have the whole spectrum of clothing available. I do have other jobs that need to be properly glamoured after all.

[LurkerofDublin]

Male Lalafell and female Lalafell share many animations, they also look very similar in body type. My guess at the male is the Lala on the far left of the image.

Yes most of their animations are the same, however they are also mirrored. So if the /joy emotes played in that picture, you'd see all the girls do theirs together, with another image showing the male one doing his on the other foot. The only difference in build between the two is slight variation in the hips.

Also, the answer is the one in the pink. Male lalafells have darkened noses, even the optional dark nose for females doesn't work the same way since the dark focuses on the nose itself and not the 'blush' around it like a natural male lala nose does. Most who use that nose typically do it as fans of taru-tarus. But it can also be used to make your lalagal a transgender character. I'd do it with my own, but he's a transvestite so I keep him as male. Might try that route with my lalagal over on excalibur though, but if not satisfied I'll just play her straight with no caveats.

[hijifa]

Lalafell are meant to be androgynous... same like how a 11 year old could look like a boy or girl depending on how you dress them up.. how can you even bring them to this argument...

But the real world does allow us to crossdress in public, and if we want to take the social risk then we're more than welcome to do that. I don't get an error if I try to equip something bought in a shop which sells clothes for the opposite gender, I just wear the clothes and decide whether or not they fit.

no dude...

https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/tag/howard-nutt/

now this wouldn't be accepted in public.. keep in mind you should be thinking in an asian mindset.. in Japan, not in US..i guess in western countries anything goes...

some of you might argue that you're "free" to do whatever you want.. don't care what other people wear etc.. but still, walking around naked outside is definitely NOT socially accepted..


i do agree that the armor in the game doesn't be gender locked, but there should always still be 2 different models for the armor. like if you wore a bikini set on a female, its a female bikini, if you wear it on a male, it looks like a male bikini(these kind of armor already exists)..

[Lukha]

keep in mind you should be thinking in an asian mindset.. in Japan, not in US..i guess in western countries anything goes...

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say there. If it's that Western countries are 'more accepting' then you're probably wrong, since Japan has something of a cultural history of cross-dressing (going in both directions, even!) and feminizing males? In fact, this classical influence is almost certainly the reason you have pretty boys and handsome girls all over the place in anime, and a crazy number of series where the entire plot hinges on the protagonist having to crossdress. It was illegal for women to be involved in theater or entertainment for a very long time, which meant that you ended up with males who specialized in playing female roles or performing traditionally feminine arts (and who garnered male fanbases and patrons for doing so). There's also the all-female Takarazuka theater troupe, which has performed everything from classics like the Tale of Genji to adaptations of Phoenix Wright, with actresses who specialize in playing male roles (and garner large female fanbases for it!).

[Lukha]

So someone asked for guys in bikinis, and far be it from me not to deliver on such a request!





That blue, blue water is so pretty.

[Serilda]

Great photoshoot, Lukha! That's still the best swimsuit in the game in my opinion

Warr_of_Lint: I never realised that that top matched the skirt so well with the stitching pattern. Nice original glamour!

LurkerofDublin: I admit, neither myself nor my wife could work it out until you revealed the answer. Genderlocking Lalafell equipment highlights why none of this makes any sense.

keep in mind you should be thinking in an asian mindset.. in Japan, not in US..i guess in western countries anything goes...

You're telling me to consider that it's a Japanese game. I'm not from the US, actually, and I'm well aware of this. The Japanese developers of FFXIV are the people continuously releasing fashion skirts for men along with all of the other 'feminine' equipment male characters can wear, not the US playerbase. The entire FF series is steeped in Japanese culture and at the same time it's been openly embracing its vast female fanbase for years, with handsome, androgynous male characters making frequent appearances along with playful aesthetic options. FFXIV is downright revolutionary in terms of Japanese-made games, with same-sex 'marriage' part of the game, a heavy focus on genuinely unisex fashion (outside of the egregious lapses we're protesting) and a reasonable amount of subtext that makes it clear the writers are completely ok with people being whatever they want to be.

I brought Lalafell to the argument because it's patently ridiculous for people to argue that men are too manly to wear certain items when Lalafell men look almost exactly the same as Lalafell women. They're locked out for no reason. Nobody is going to be offended by a male Lalafell with a butterfly hairpin or a male Lalafell with bunny ears, because those things are not inherently gendered in the first place and even if they were, hardly anyone can tell male and female Lalafell apart at a casual glance so it's impossible to (rationally) find the look offensive. There is no cultural reason for a male Lalafell to have to be punished just because someone out there can't visualise a male Roegadyn with bunny ears - and I find it questionable that they cannot do that either, given that hardly any of the locked items are actually 'aggressively feminine' by design. Especially compared to what we can already equip.

We're not asking to 'walk around naked' (nice strawman, by the way). We can actually already walk around seemingly naked, and wearing less than a female character. That's irrelevant to this discussion.

We're asking to be treated equally to players with female characters when it comes to glamour. And if people are going to get hysterical that doing so will bring Eorzean society to a standstill because everyone will be too distracted by men in dresses to go about their daily lives, we're going to post pictures taken in the existing game demonstrating that we can already blow minds with the countless skirts, robes and dresses already on offer in the game.

If they want to optimise items and give male/female equivalents for each piece, fine. We had a long, long thread about how the Thavnairian Bustier could be tastefully adapted to give a handsome bishounen aesthetic on a man without literally being a dress, and that's a perfectly acceptable compromise. We're all tremendously excited/nervous about the legendary 'male bunny suit' that may eventually be coming at some point in the next decade. If they want to just lazily adapt the existing models, I'm fine with that too - I can make tons of the locked gloves, hats and boots work in perfectly respectable outfits without dipping a single toe into 'crossdressing' territory (though I don't have a problem with anyone who goes there). It sounds as though you basically agree with that sentiment, so I don't appreciate you coming in guns blazing and talking down to us as though we don't get it.

We get it. We just don't like it. That's the point.

[Savagelf]

Shouldn't woman demand equal treatment in main lead female character then too. first off you complain the men should have bikina which is woman piece of clothing. second this is fantasy game which base on Medieval culture no in 20th century culture. this give way to view reality and fantasy are linked. In medieval culture many mage like jobs worn similar wear to monks which where robes. in medieval culture robes are more like dress to first off. you demanding your 20th culture be apply to ffxiv culture which has a entire different view on clothing. look if you look at feudal Japanese you see woman wear something entire different the men. if you look at medieval Europe you see the same things. what you are demanding is almost impossible because it would ruin the lore of the game. If you look at how devs build game you realize they is need a lot studied of different culture at different point and times in they histroys